Daggerheart General Thread [+]

[Scribe]

Yep. That's one big reason why D&D 5E stuck success at 65% and fixed the leveling, PC, and monster math around that. We tend to feel failure twice as much as success, so if you win 2/3 of the time and fail 1/3 of the time it feels like you're 50/50.

I kept track of the rolls of my playtest game, success vs failure, hope vs fear. They succeeded more than failed, but felt like they failed way more often. They rolled with fear slightly more often, but felt like they "never rolled with hope." It was so bad we had to take a break because one player got properly pissed off about their dice luck. When I showed him the log after the session he accused me of lying.

Exactly. And I can absolutely see from a psychological point of view, where even a success, with fear (I think thats a thing right?) would actually feel like a punishment.

An interesting square to circle for folks who take this as their main game I think.

 

[overgeeked]

Exactly. And I can absolutely see from a psychological point of view, where even a success, with fear (I think thats a thing right?) would actually feel like a punishment.

Yeah, that's a thing. As some others have mentioned, when playing games with complications besides just success/failure it doesn't feel as bad to get a complication thrown in the mix. But here it felt worse, for my players at least. It really did feel like a double or triple whammy.

The crit and success with hope are the only clean successes. Which is generally fine. The trouble is this stuff...

"ON A SUCCESS WITH FEAR…You get what you want, but it comes with a cost or consequence. The GM gains a Fear." Cost or consequence and GM fear. Double whammy.

"ON A FAILURE WITH HOPE…Things don’t go to plan. You probably don’t get what you want and there are consequences, but you gain a Hope." Fail and consequence. Double whammy.

"ON A FAILURE WITH FEAR…Things go very badly. You probably don’t get what you want, and a major consequence or complication occurs because of it. The GM gains a Fear." Fail and consequence or complication and GM fear. Triple whammy.

In most PbtA games the worst you get is a fail and consequence. Not the GM gaining a negative resource on top of that.

It should be either, or...not both. Something like the GM gains a fear that they can immediately spend to inflict a complication or save for later.

An interesting square to circle for folks who take this as their main game I think.

Yeah. Other than a house rule like the above I'm not sure how to do it. I like a lot of what they did, but I'm not sure how much play this one will get from me.

 

[Scribe]

"ON A SUCCESS WITH FEAR…You get what you want, but it comes with a cost or consequence. The GM gains a Fear." Cost or consequence and GM fear. Double whammy.

"ON A FAILURE WITH HOPE…Things don’t go to plan. You probably don’t get what you want and there are consequences, but you gain a Hope." Fail and consequence. Double whammy.

"ON A FAILURE WITH FEAR…Things go very badly. You probably don’t get what you want, and a major consequence or complication occurs because of it. The GM gains a Fear." Fail and consequence or complication and GM fear. Triple whammy.

Yeah, see this is interesting. I dont want to get into the weeds too much but I have played with far too many people who would take exception to all this mechanic/design in a serious way. Like they would simply nope right out at the first 'fail AND FEAR?!' and leave the game.

 

[Arilyn]

I've been both running and playing a fair amount of DH. Our table loves it. We are having a blast with the game. It's becoming addictive. None of us are Critters, btw.

It's interesting reading different reactions to the game. Of course gamers have different preferences, but DH seems to elicit almost opposite experiences. I'm thinking in many cases the game is being run very differently, in part because of its narrative nature?

 

[overgeeked]

I've been both running and playing a fair amount of DH. Our table loves it. We are having a blast with the game. It's becoming addictive. None of us are Critters, btw.

It's interesting reading different reactions to the game. Of course gamers have different preferences, but DH seems to elicit almost opposite experiences. I'm thinking in many cases the game is being run very differently, in part because of its narrative nature?

My group was a mix of critters and not. They mostly were the kind of OC player who would like CR whether they actually watched or not. For example, despite it being a playtest, one of the players had a 8-10 page backstory written up for their character.

There was definitely an air of power gaming from a couple of them. A lot of talk about builds and synergy. The power gamers seemed the most upset by the failure, consequences, and fear setup.

They were very much the overly-cautious types who want nothing bad to happen to their characters. We even chatted about that after the session. I get the impression they had no interest in challenge or adventure or risks. More like avoiding those at all costs while somehow also winning.

 

[dbm]

[hyperbole]I think you can separate players into two broad groups:

• those who give their characters backstories for the GM to put story hooks on
• those who have a blank backstory in case the GM tries to put story hooks on it

The former typically see plot twists as a good thing, the later typically want total agency for their in-game avatar.[/hyperbole]

 

[Seramus]

[hyperbole]I think you can separate players into two broad groups:

• those who give their characters backstories for the GM to put story hooks on
• those who have a blank backstory in case the GM tries to put story hooks on it

I tend to come up with my backstory as I play. The more I spend time in the skin of my character, the better feel I have on their personality, and the better I can come up with really resonant reasons for why they act the way they do. Back when I used to write backstories before I started playing, I often found what I wrote didn't end up vibing with who the character became once I started inhabiting them.

 

[dbm]

I didn’t say when the backstory is generated…