D&D 5E Damage on a missed attack roll

[FrogReaver]

Seems to be the very interesting blade dancer subclass of the Disciple and actually it is wisdom modifer... meaning even less of a power benefit than a 4e fighter ability (which also wasnt a problem).

The Disciple 2.1.pdf

drive.google.com

Are you sure your responses are posted on the right thread?

 

[Garthanos]

Are you sure your responses are posted on the right thread?

A third party damage on a miss ability yes .... someone else pointed out the Disciple up thread yes

 

[FrogReaver]

A third party damage on a miss ability yes .... someone else pointed out the Disciple up thread yes

Okay..... so I'm still confused with why you replied to me about that specific third party class?

 

[Garthanos]

Okay..... so I'm still confused with why you replied to me about that specific third party class?

Its not you. I just went off of yours because it was handy and you seemed to assume such a combo was overpowered or too desireable.

The OP is very vague about the details and you assumed half damage on a miss (which isn't necessarily even a problem either see Tonys comment up thread for a math analysis it might be like getting a raging 2.7 higher damage than an alternative which might give you the same in a different way)

And the damage on a miss mechanics including the examples from 4e/13th age etc are not like that unless they are expending some bigger resource the op is talking about a 3rd party class ie it is an example AND looks to be a very interesting one actually.

AND you asked me what is it? Technically ask the OP if you must know, It is mumble mumble third party class that the OP thinks is scary because other characters do not have EXACTLY the same thing apparently... no matter what the math says.

 

[Garthanos]

OK looked up thead he does say it is half level damage on a miss "3pp character and this character does half his level in damage on a missed melee attack. "

 

[Yardiff]

Seems to be the very interesting blade dancer subclass of the Disciple and actually it is wisdom modifer... meaning even less of a power benefit than a 4e fighter ability (which also wasnt a problem).

The Disciple 2.1.pdf

drive.google.com

So fighters in 4e did 'damage on a miss' with their at-will powers?

 

[Garthanos]

So fighters in 4e did 'damage on a miss' with their at-will powers?

modifier damage only though not half level damage but yes ... it was a specific at-will power.

 

[Tony Vargas]

If 'damage on a miss.' was a unified mechanic that existed in 5e then I wouldn't have a problem but this mechanic isn't in 5e.

It is, actually, it's mathematically identical to damage on a successful save.

 

[Garthanos]

It is, actually, it's mathematically identical to damage on a successful save.

Crunching a few more numbers in comparison

A 4e fighter likely would do 4 on a miss if they chose the Reaping Strike starting out (could do 5 or 3 but 4 is a fair guess... and by end game doing 9 or 10. Numbers very analogous to a 5e character doing 1/2 level damage on a miss. If they made it attribute only damage on a miss the amount is less in 5e but since its being used by most combat classes in multiple attacks I would say it evens out. So its kind of better than the 4e ability but I am suspecting that is a good thing as it succeeds on staying relevant by endgame. Where as for the 4e fighter not using many at-wills at all (some weird builds or essentials exceptions aside) and also not using multiple attacks which incorporate it so the ability is not seen often.

An over all analysis without knowing exactly what class its in is limited, but it seems that while it starts around the same as the 4e ability if it were a fighter ability in 5e it is a bit better at progressing.

So far I think it's a pretty good translation of the 4e Reaping Strike adjusted for 5e. Just because something is 3rd party product doesn't mean they cannot do good stuff.

 

[Tony Vargas]

. So its kind of better than the 4e ability but I am suspecting that is a good thing

Damage/hps do scale faster in 5e, staring lower at 1st, and ending higher at 20th in 5e than 4e at 30th. Necessary as BA constrains scaling on attacks/AC/saves/DCs/skills/tools/checks, so a sense of advancement had to come from somewhere.