DDM: Chicks not in chainmail

[Jack7]

It would also be nice if stereotypes of female PCs weren't relegated all too often to this:

Staff Chick

Hey PP, I like Secretaries and Executive Assistants! I got one of my own.

But has anybody ever thought that this might be a cultural stereotype issue rather than a fantasy/gaming type issue. Most people in the general population just don't think much of the idea of women running around risking life and being maimed and disfigured (and that' what happens over time) by engaging in hand to hand combat with sharp metal objects.

If I had a chick with me in combat, I don't care who she was or what she could do, she'd be way behind me with a bow, or a sniper rifle. I'd have no interest in trying to put her skull back together or pulling a crossbow bolt out of her eye. Call that what you will, I call it the truth for most people, I suspect. Maybe the manufacturers who make minis are less gaming fanatics and more general population on this one. Maybe it's just a job to them and they don't think much of females losing limbs, being scarred and disfigured, becoming paraplegics or catching bone smashing projectiles by being in the direct line of fire from catapults and ballistae. So it doesn't much occur to them to dress up women like hand to hand combatants who stick spears through other people's throats, or have their own slit open as a matter of professional courtesy.

That don't explain the silly see-through miniskirt chainmail, not exactly, but maybe they figure if such gals are exposed enough they'll be less inclined to dash into the front lines and get mangled up for life. Yeah, I know it's just a game and nobody really gets mangled up, but maybe somebody figures the living silly looking stereotype is better than the properly attired dead one.

It's just something to think about.

Anyways when it comes to combat make my females magical and put em way back in the rear. They can lob a fireball as well as the next fella but I'd hate to see one eaten alive or crippled up in combat just to prove a point. Just call me old fashioned that way.

Then again I ain't got much interest in being eaten alive myself. But if it's either me or her, better me. I'm harder to digest.

 

[Mark]

Yeah... thing is if wotc had made "victim" and Non Combatant minis female, I think there would have been more eyebrows raised.

So why not provide models of these in both sexes? Would the gamer universe get too upset about equality in all?

I do not doubt that Frank is correct that a certain segment of gamerdom would be up in arms if a scantily-clad version of a buxom female prisoner were depicted in miniature form. However, removing the adjectives would limit the outrage while simultaneously lowerering the popularity and secondary market price. You can't please everyone but it's a small matter (cause it's miniature!)

Personally, I could regularly use an old crone mini in my games as an NPC. It can work as a witch, an older female townsperson, a person in disguise or any number of other things.

 

[Jack7]

You can't please everyone but it's a small matter (cause it's miniature!)

You're on a roll today. Have some XP.

 

[Mark]

You're on a roll today.

I'm just getting started.

Have some XP.

Thanks!


(Gloomp - Pacman.)

 

[ExploderWizard]

That don't explain the silly see-through miniskirt chainmail, not exactly, but maybe they figure if such gals are exposed enough they'll be less inclined to dash into the front lines and get mangled up for life. Yeah, I know it's just a game and nobody really gets mangled up, but maybe somebody figures the living silly looking stereotype is better than the properly attired dead one.

It's just something to think about.

I think the trend in female mini sculpts just follows the trend in fantasy art. Most of the classic TSR art ( and a LOT since then) has featured the swimsuit armor on females. Its got a lot more to do with marketing art to a young male audience than anything in the real world.

 

[Jack7]

Its got a lot more to do with marketing art to a young male audience than anything in the real world.

I was just being a little bit facetious on that one, just playing out the theme, but I suspect you're right EW on that score.

Thanks!

It's the least I can do on short notice.

 

[shilsen]

But has anybody ever thought that this might be a cultural stereotype issue rather than a fantasy/gaming type issue.

I definitely think it's a cultural stereotype issue. Sexism always is.

Most people in the general population just don't think much of the idea of women running around risking life and being maimed and disfigured (and that' what happens over time) by engaging in hand to hand combat with sharp metal objects.

If I had a chick with me in combat, I don't care who she was or what she could do, she'd be way behind me with a bow, or a sniper rifle. I'd have no interest in trying to put her skull back together or pulling a crossbow bolt out of her eye. Call that what you will, I call it the truth for most people, I suspect. Maybe the manufacturers who make minis are less gaming fanatics and more general population on this one. Maybe it's just a job to them and they don't think much of females losing limbs, being scarred and disfigured, becoming paraplegics or catching bone smashing projectiles by being in the direct line of fire from catapults and ballistae. So it doesn't much occur to them to dress up women like hand to hand combatants who stick spears through other people's throats, or have their own slit open as a matter of professional courtesy.

That don't explain the silly see-through miniskirt chainmail, not exactly, but maybe they figure if such gals are exposed enough they'll be less inclined to dash into the front lines and get mangled up for life. Yeah, I know it's just a game and nobody really gets mangled up, but maybe somebody figures the living silly looking stereotype is better than the properly attired dead one.

It's just something to think about.

Anyways when it comes to combat make my females magical and put em way back in the rear. They can lob a fireball as well as the next fella but I'd hate to see one eaten alive or crippled up in combat just to prove a point. Just call me old fashioned that way.

Ye gods, that's a lot of gender stereotypes in there. One can call it all the things you did, but hiding it under the guise of being old-fashioned doesn't make it any the less sexist. I'm all for people gaming in their own way, but I'd personally have serious issues if someone in any of my groups tried to tell a female player, "No, your PC can't be in the front lines since a woman's always pretty and fragile and needs the menfolk to protect her." And the person would probably be laughed out of the room.

Then again I ain't got much interest in being eaten alive myself. But if it's either me or her, better me. I'm harder to digest.

Not really. In D&D, unless you're introducing some stat differences on the basis of gender, the female character is just as likely to be strong, durable, dexterous, smart, wise and charismatic as the male character. Sexism is silly enough in real life, leave alone in a game.

 

[pawsplay]

Anyways when it comes to combat make my females magical and put em way back in the rear. They can lob a fireball as well as the next fella but I'd hate to see one eaten alive or crippled up in combat just to prove a point. Just call me old fashioned that way.

I started this thread basically to say that the mini selection does not seem to be useful and applicable because it fails to cover human females. My assumption is that female humans are suitable as PCs, whether martial or spellcasting. If you do not share the assumption that a sword-wielding female human is a pretty basic character type, perhaps this thread is not for you. Discussing whether women should be in harm's way in the first place is really a different topic, and you are welcome to fork a new thread to discuss that topic.

 

[Jack7]

if someone in any of my groups tried to tell a female player, "No, your PC can't be in the front lines since a woman's always pretty and fragile and needs the menfolk to protect her."

Knowing what I know about females I doubt you could tell em much and make it stick if they didn't want it to. But I was talking about the cultural stereotype and my preferences. I just got no real interest in maimed or dead females. Pretty or not. And maimed is a lot less pretty than not maimed. So, females doing their job, by all means. Females unnecessarily exposed to danger, not for me. And that probably ain't never gonna change as far as I'm concerned.

And the person would probably be laughed out of the room.

Oh, I reckon I've survived much worse than that Shil. I'd live through it. I don't think I'd even bother standing up over something like that. Unless a lady entered the room.

Sexism is silly enough in real life, leave alone in a game.

Well, you probably got a point about games. Then again in games nobody ever has to write a letter home to the family, or mop up body parts.

Still, if a female asked my opinion on the matter I'd tell her. "Let me run up and take all the stab wounds and clubbings to the head, you stand back and Staff us up a lightning bolt."

A wink is as good as a nod if you know what you're doing.

 

[Jack7]

I started this thread basically to say that the mini selection does not seem to be useful and applicable because it fails to cover human females. My assumption is that female humans are suitable as PCs, whether martial or spellcasting. If you do not share the assumption that a sword-wielding female human is a pretty basic character type, perhaps this thread is not for you. Discussing whether women should be in harm's way in the first place is really a different topic, and you are welcome to fork a new thread to discuss that topic.

It's your thread of course so this will be my last reply.

But I expressed an argument that maybe there are so few minis like that because most people just instinctively don't like the idea of women in direct way of being cut to pieces in hand to hand combat. So they don't rush to make figures which represent that kind of thing very often.

You might not agree with that argument, but I still bet that to some degree it is true. An argument doesn't always have to be agreeable to be true.