D&D 5E Dealing with a trouble player and a major blow up

[Sunseeker]

Or how stupid the other guy thinks you are whether or not you think you're acting stupid. You might feel you're being Mr. Funny Guy, while the DM thinks you're stupid. Is the DM always right in those situations? Can DMs pull that card in this situation?

I'm not sure why you're so fanatically defending this problem player. I'll agree that MajorO isn't completely innocent in what has led up to this situation, but some of your comments are just plain odd.

Jerks can and often do have friends, they're often jerks themselves. Perhaps the store will lament the loss in business (if in fact those people were bringing any business in at all, which is not guaranteed). Perhaps the store will be relieved to be rid of them.

Even if MajorO's post is one-sided, it's the only side we've got and we're NOT going to get problem player's side of things. So asking for it is just silly. You can either believe what MajorO wrote or disregard it, but arguing on the basis of the numerous "what ifs" you keep bringing up is just senseless. If you don't want to believe what was written then continuing to speculate that it is false really serves no purpose as your speculations will never be validated.

Or maybe you just don't get it because you've never played with such a person before.

 

[Umbran]

Ask yourself what you would do if you were hanging around a group that games together at a public venue where you like most of the people and most of them like you, but one guy there, who DMs and holds a fairly prominent position, has called you stupid behind your back?

Ask yourself what you would do? Hm... Continue playing at his table and throw tantrums? And then insist that the GM come back and ignore my prior bad behavior? Yeah, that sounds good!

At the very best, we have two people who have made errors here. Each is responsible for their own bad moves.

Do you think you and he would get along too well?

I think that anyone playing in a public game needs to have some self control while at the table.

You are presenting an explanation of the behavior. It is, however, not an excuse. If he has such a problem with Major O, maybe he should stop playing at Major O's table, rather than subject himself to such tension that he storms off in a huff and ruin the evening for many people - that's selfish in the extreme. Or (*gasp*) make the stunningly mature-adult move of talking about the problem with Major O to remove the issue.

I'd sure like to hear Mr. Tantrum's side. If six of the people there like him enough to leave if Mr. Tantrum is kicked from the group, he must be a lot more likeable than Majoru makes him out to be.

Not necessarily. You yourself have mentioned that the gaming community has its share of dysfunctional people - that means we have dysfunctional relationships. Mr. Tantrum might be a reasonable person, yes. However, we should not assume that the six people have a *healthy* relationship with Mr. Tantrum. Some of what is described could also be classic emotional-abuse behavior.

Since Major O is not a therapist, the path through for him is the same, regardless - either talk to the guy and try to directly address the situation, or don't play. Playing with someone who holds your game silently hostage with threat of drama is not responsible GMing.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It sounds like a bunch of people there like Mr. Tantrum enough to leave if he is permanently ejected. If Mr. Tantrum inspires that kind of friendship from others, do you think he is as bad as Majoru paints him? I don't know. Seems if the guy was as much of a jerk as Majoru paints him, everyone else would notice and dislike the guy.

People are rarely unalloyed asses, probably because we are social animals. My grade-school bullies had buddies. Many serial killers have been described as charming- some have been considered pillars of their communities. Gang members have people who would die for them.

Except the most damaged of our kind, people form friendships and other loyal associations.

 

[prosfilaes]

You might feel you're being Mr. Funny Guy, while the DM thinks you're stupid. Is the DM always right in those situations?

That's not a question of fact; the universe has no opinion in the matter. The French can love Jerry Lewis and Americans not, and neither one is objectively wrong or right. If you're an American being dragged to Jerry Lewis films by your French SO (and you hold the stereotypical views on the matter), the issue is not is he objectively funny, but how you're going to negotiate the issues involved, and if someone throws a temper tantrum, the least you should do is stop seeing Jerry Lewis films together.

If the DM doesn't find you funny, he doesn't find you funny, and you two need to find a way to work together or not at all.

 

[Umbran]

People are rarely unalloyed asses, probably because we are social animals. My grade-school bullies had buddies. Many serial killers have been described as charming- some have been considered pillars of their communities. Gang members have people who would die for them.

And, when people are unalloyed asses... there are people who, for a variety of reasons, gravitate and hang around unalloyed asses.

 

[chriton227]

My grade-school bullies had buddies.Many serial killers have been described as charming- some have been considered pillars of their communities.

With bullies, their buddies are frequently more sycophants or followers than friends. They are people who see the bully as powerful and someone to fear, and by sucking up to the bully, they feel they can either share in that power or avoid being a target themselves. But when the bully ends up in a tight spot, those buddies will frequently abandon the bully to save their own hides, especially if it looks like the bully is going to be dethroned from their position of power.

As far as the serial killers, many of them are sociopaths who are manipulating the people around them as cover for their activities. People don't like the actual serial killer, they like the facade that the serial killer is projecting, the false persona that they use to avoid suspicion. And the "pillar of the community" thing can easily be part of the role they are playing.

There are many cases of people who are unalloyed asses (UA for short) with plenty of "friends", but frequently those friends are not there out of genuine affection, but instead because they want something the UA can offer, whether it be material goods, influence, power, parties, etc., or because they are afraid of the UA and are sucking up to stay in the UA's good graces. I haven't seen many poor UAs with big groups of friends, but media is full of UAs (or people doing a darn good impersonation) that are musicians, actors, sports stars, or heirs to family fortunes. With many of them, if they suddenly lost their fame and fortune they would find that they also lost many of their "friends", which calls into question whether they were ever really friends to begin with. At the smaller scale, the UA could have a crowd of "friends" just because they are the one that has the cool place to party at, or they guy who always has booze available for his "friends", or who has family connections to get his "friends" into whatever local attraction is cool, or even has the family member that could make things difficult for people the UA doesn't like.

 

[Beleriphon]

It sounds like a bunch of people there like Mr. Tantrum enough to leave if he is permanently ejected. If Mr. Tantrum inspires that kind of friendship from others, do you think he is as bad as Majoru paints him? I don't know. Seems if the guy was as much of a jerk as Majoru paints him, everyone else would notice and dislike the guy.

See the points of Geek Social Fallacies. Even if somebody is an odious reprobate they're my "friend" so I can't critisize or otherwise abandon them even in the face of another "friend". You don't have to like people see this happen.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

*edited: many accurate points*

While all that is true, my point was that even bad people may have large social groups. They may not be what you or I would call "friends", but they behave similarly enough for the purposes of this thread.

IOW- jerkish behavior does not preclude friendship or its analogues.

 

[Hussar]

And, when people are unalloyed asses... there are people who, for a variety of reasons, gravitate and hang around unalloyed asses.

Personally, I prefer mixed metal asses. .... err ... wait...

 

[Manbearcat]

While all that is true, my point was that even bad people may have large social groups. They may not be what you or I would call "friends", but they behave similarly enough for the purposes of this thread.

IOW- jerkish behavior does not preclude friendship or its analogues.

This point and the prior post it stemmed from are pretty insightful when it comes to the often awkward, often vacillating, social dynamics of hobbies specifically or leisure activities generally. Different people are looking for varying, sometimes significantly so, returns on the investment of their time, energy and emotion. For example:

I have two weekly games of basketball that I attend.

Game 1 - This is a hyper competitive game that includes 20-somethings and 30-somethings who are all alphas and life-long athletes. It is very high quality ball. However, this game is overfilled with a bunch of jerks that I would have absolutely ZERO association with outside of this game. There are only two guys out of this group that I like as a human being and only one of those two I would call friend. Most are hyper-narcissists and average to bad sportsmen. Stray physical and verbal altercations are to be expected, but the whole thing holds together nonetheless.

It sates the primal need to compete as hard as possible and the emotional quantity that comes only from the tribal camaraderie that spins out of a shared objective in intense physical conflict.

Game 2 - This is a game of guys in their late 30s and several in their 40s and 50s. I have been playing with these guys for 25 years...literally when I was 13 and several of them were mid to late 20s. These guys are all very good athletes for their ages, but they're all well out of their prime and some are playing on fumes after a life of injuries. While the game is very fun and competitive enough, it is tantamount to a "beer and pretzels" RPG game. I have to throttle back a few gears to keep things fun for everyone as I'm the youngest out there and still athletic enough that I can play with 20 year olds. But I love every one of these guys. Good men. Good fathers. Great sportsmen. Great pals. And like I said, still good athletes, especially for their ages.

It sates the natural need for community with kindred spirits and people that I very much enjoy being around and have a long, shared history with. It also sates the need to escape mentally from the world and lose myself in the breezy, zen moments inherent to doing competition-lite, physical stuff.


Neither experience supplants the other. They're diverse experiences and the crowd and ritual aspects are intrinsic to that diversity. Bringing it back to MO, his RPG and social needs, and how this group placates them, are likely more complex than he even realizes. He may even revel in some of this conflict and competition between he and "Tantrum Guy" and he doesn't even know it.