Dear Hasbro: about those minis

[Thurbane]

In fairness, they aren't selling a "fixed set of minis in a box." They are selling an introduction to D&D that includes a fixed set if minis.

...and the funny thing is, even though I don't need the rulebooks, dice or basically anything else in that box, I went and bought it just to get some non-randomized minis!

[edit]Urgh! Sorry for so many posts in a row, I just get a bit passionate on this particular subject...[/edit]

 

[CaptainChaos]

Many people have already given a fair amount of explanation of why the business model that the anti-random folks are trying to present will not work, complete with supporting facts about how similar non-random business models have fared unfavorably in comparison to the random business model.

Only two people with actual experience in this area of business have posted in this thread, Charles Ryan and Chris Pramas, and it doesn’t seem that they are in agreement.

You didn't see non-collectible card game makers blowing up the marketplace, just like you don't see non-collectible mini's going toe to toe in profitability with WotC's random collectibles. The profitability of collectibility has been proven over and over and over again in all kinds of markets.

Let me introduce you to a little company called Games Workshop. They are the biggest and most profitable miniatures company in existence. Nothing WotC has done has with DDM has changed that. The existence of companies like GW, Privateer, and Reaper proves that the non-random distribution is absolutely possible.

It's not crystal ball gazing, it's the reality of business.

So why does GW continue to eat WotC for breakfast in the minis market?

 

[MerricB]

No, it really doesn't. Chainmail was hopelessly compromised by the internal politics of WotC so I would not draw too many conclusions based on its fate. As we were trying to launch the game and facing endless roadblocks, territorial disputes, and corporate shenanigans, we used to joke that we were being shackled at the ankles, shot in both knees, and then told to run.

Quite true. The cancellation of Chainmail had nothing to do with my "Law".

I seem to see parallels between Chainmail and D&D Master Tools, the computer program that eventually was shot and resurrected as E-tools.

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

Let me introduce you to a little company called Games Workshop. They are the biggest and most profitable miniatures company in existence. Nothing WotC has done has with DDM has changed that. The existence of companies like GW, Privateer, and Reaper proves that the non-random distribution is absolutely possible.

Certainly it is.

However, non-random distribution of D&D Minis at a similar pricepoint to the current minis? Not so certain. Heroscape is the only thing that gets close, and it is (a) more expensive and (b) has fewer figures.

It's worth noting that when the DDM fixed sets were announced, the orc warparty probably would have done ok. However, the bandit warparty was in trouble... because you could buy all the figures in it on the secondary market for less!

Cheers!

 

[Shadowslayer]

So why does GW continue to eat WotC for breakfast in the minis market?

Minis aren't simply accessories in their games. They ARE the game.

In D&D, the minis are really only integral to the DDM players. The rest of us use them because we want to, not because we have to. You can still use Gummy Bears for orcs if you want.

You think people have their snot in a knot over randomness...imagine the outcry if D&D (the RPG) became a game where your effectiveness was determined by which minis you buy?

And of course, GW is not for the gotta-have-it-now gamers. It's for guys who enjoy painting and that have the patience to learn how to do it.

I don't think you can compare the two companies really.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Don't get me started on "how random is random" - myself and two friends bought 8 Giants of Legend packs. The reult of our huge minis? 1x Red Dragon (cool!), 2x Formorian (not bad), 5x Nightwalker... five of the ******* things. Not only an ugly mini, something that, if we were ever to use in a game, would only be ONE of!

What you've just described is actually evidence of randomness ... rather than the opposite, which I'm sure you believe.

Streaks happen in any random generation. If there are no streaks like the unfortunate one described above, then you can be nearly positive that the sample is not random.

That said, DDM minis are only strictly random if bought at the booster level ... cases, OTOH, are seeded pseudo-randomly.

 

[Thurbane]

What you've just described is actually evidence of randomness ... rather than the opposite, which I'm sure you believe.

Streaks happen in any random generation. If there are no streaks like the unfortunate one described above, then you can be nearly positive that the sample is not random.

That said, DDM minis are only strictly random if bought at the booster level ... cases, OTOH, are seeded pseudo-randomly.

All mathematical causality and probability discussions aside, as fascinating as they are, it still sucked serious ass.

 

[blargney the second]

All mathematical causality and probability discussions aside, as fascinating as they are, it still sucked serious ass.

Fair enough! *sympathy*

 

[Oryan77]

There you go, Oryan77 - make the people in this thread happy - put together some themed sets!

So, who's going to do this for D&D minis?

I would be more than happy to put together themed sets if someone were to ask me for one. The thing is, the market for themed sets seems so small that a seller may lose out on selling a mini if it's in the themed set rather than in his "singles" category. Themed sets may sit in your inventory for a long time & some of those minis probably would've sold if it wasn't in the set.

From what I've noticed on Ebay in the past, themed Ebay auctions don't get many bids (if any at all). And if they do get a bid, those minis sell for much less than if you just sold them individually...low enough that the seller is lucky to be making a profit.

But if people think themed sets would work (or if you want to buy a themed set), feel free to email me your suggestions at oryan1977 at yahoo.com

I could always give it a shot and see what happens.

 

[RFisher]

QFT - But hey, like anybody who disagrees is actually going to take this into consideration...

I take it into consideration. It means they know what the obstacles are, which is the first step to overcoming them.

& for the record, I don't mean to accuse WotC/Hasbro of lying or laziness. Simply lack of vision.