D&D 5E Designer apathy and sunk costs, The reason the sorcerer is doomed to uncanny valley one-trick-ponieness.

[Mistwell]

If the edition war was any guide, 4-5 years of acrimonious whining will get you what you want.

I may be mis-remembering, but I seem to recall Kaiilurker complaining about the 4e Sorcerer for the entire run of 4e, and now he's been complaining about the 5e sorcerer for 5e's run so far (in fact I think he only liked the Pathfinder sorcerer - I vaguely recall he thought the 3e version was also too weak). I am pretty sure we already surpassed the 4-5 year mark of Kaiilurker complaining about sorcerers, and still no change.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I may be mis-remembering, but I seem to recall Kaiilurker complaining about the 4e Sorcerer for the entire run of 4e, and now he's been complaining about the 5e sorcerer for 5e's run so far (in fact I think he only liked the Pathfinder sorcerer - I vaguely recall he thought the 3e version was also too weak). I am pretty sure we already surpassed the 4-5 year mark of Kaiilurker complaining about sorcerers, and still no change.

You're right, more than time is required. Maybe more sock-puppets are called for? A good rallying slogan? "Sorcerers casts spells!" just doesn't cut it. "Disensourcelled Mechanics?"

 

[Orlax]

Honestly, Poison isn't a trap option because of the lack of Poison damage spells, it's a trap because of how many creatures have either resistance or immunity to it.

Also, given the limitations on Spells known, even as a Fire or Cold Sorcerer, I wouldn't take more than 3 or 4 spells in my chosen element, total. I'm planning on playing a Fire Dragon Sorcerer, and I'm only going to get three fire spells total, Fireball, Firebolt and Scorching Ray. Maybe Create Bonfire, because it combos so well with Pyrotechnics, but since I don't want to be the one-trick pony, I have to limit my Fire magics.

I expect more spells will be added to the Sorcerer, as each new expansion has, so while we might not reach elemental parity, flexibility will increase. To be honest, if there's a spot I'd redo, I think Sorcerers should have more Metamagic options, and gain additional Metamagics as they level. That is something I'm less certain will happen.

Don't forget melf's minute meteors. That spell is just funny.

Also can we talk about high level when a lot of monsters start meeting either resistant to our immune to fire damage.

 

[MoonSong]

Does the OP even know what the term "uncanny valley" refers to, or is the thread title just thrown together words and terms that mean nothing?

Well, I don't know you, but "Covered in scales", "oozing sparks all the time", & "Randomly turning purple" are pretty disturbing and not normal looking. Sorry if I chose the wrong word, I was short on time.

The sorcerer is plenty versatile.
Remember that about half the wizard subclasses rely on using 20-40% of your spells in their chosen schools of be outclassed by the bard. Maybe 3/4 of the wizard subclasses.

The sorcerer can blast in element or use metamagic and have a better primary ability score.

One hundred ways to fry a Kobold is not the versatility I'm looking for. You knnow something about not blasting would be nice...

I may be mis-remembering, but I seem to recall Kaiilurker complaining about the 4e Sorcerer for the entire run of 4e, and now he's been complaining about the 5e sorcerer for 5e's run so far (in fact I think he only liked the Pathfinder sorcerer - I vaguely recall he thought the 3e version was also too weak). I am pretty sure we already surpassed the 4-5 year mark of Kaiilurker complaining about sorcerers, and still no change.

To me the 5e sorcerer manages to make the 4e one look good. Now I have a new non-favorite. (Currently having a blast with a 4e storm sorcerer)11

 

[Psikerlord#]

Personally, I would have deleted sorcerer altogether and just left it as Wizard and Warlock. I don't feel the sorcerer mechanics are different enough to require a whole class.

I would turn the sorcerer-like abilities into feats instead. Metamagic feat (for any caster). Dragon heritage Feat (for anyone). Wild Magic Feat (needs a casting aspect, or possibly could also activate off the using of magic items - so, yeah, anyone feat).

Tada!

 

[MoonSong]

Because that's the way WotC designed the 5E sorcerer.

If you want to do all the things you mentioned, then design your own 5E sorcerer.

And I complain because they asked for the direction of the classes inn all other cases -bu warlock I think- except this one. I feel unheard.

Nope. That's MoonSong(Kaiilurker).

They have a very, very, very narrow character concept they wish to play, and apparently doesn't want to play any other. And the fact that they can't play this specific character they created for a previous edition in exactly the same way in 5E is an issue for them. Enough so that every sorcerer thread is a chance for them to comment that they can't.

My concept is not a bookworm and not a blaster. That's it, I haven't played two identical sorcerers ever.

Yep. We know. You've brought this up many times before. But right now the question is What are you going to do about it?

I mean, if you just want to keep bemoaning the sorcerer for bemoaning's sake, that's fine. Go right ahead. You're free to do so as often as you want. But I do wonder if perhaps there might be a more constructive use of your time? I mean... have you reworked the sorcerer class to your liking? Have you looked at all the other sorcerer reworkings here on the boards? Have you talked with your DM about using the rules in the DMG to change or modify the class (which the game specifically says you *can* do) to create the kind of class you want to play? Because you can do it for your home game. You're allowed.

Granted, if you ONLY chance to play D&D is the Adventurer's League... then yeah, you have to play the Sorcerer as presented. Or you have to suck it up and play your "hated Wizard" (that you've gone into many times in many different threads about how you'd rather chew ground glass than play) in order to get the stuff you want to use for this very specific spellcaster concept that you seem unwilling to deviate from. Or, you have to just accept this situation as a fait accompli and *not* play Adventurer's League and play Pathfinder Society instead (so you can play a Sorcerer more to your liking.)

But you're not getting what you want from WotC ever. They made their design choice. They aren't going to "fix" things in the very specific, narrow concept of sorcerer design that you seem incapable of moving on from. Sorry. It ain't happening.

And thus... feel free to continue to make posts on this subject here on the boards as often as you'd like... and feel free to be prepared for the myriad of responses such as this one telling you that your hopes and dreams are not happening. Cause they're not. You're not going to get what you want from WotC. No matter how many times you post wishing it wasn't so.

Well complaining about trivial things in the internet keeps me relaxed and stress free. Not having a steady group also sucks and takes away chances to play what I want to play, so when I play I want to play what I want to play instead of just taking a blaster. But if I am that alone on my ´preferences maybe you are right, I should sell all my D&D books and go play pathfinder.

Personally, I would have deleted sorcerer altogether and just left it as Wizard and Warlock. I don't feel the sorcerer mechanics are different enough to require a whole class.

I would turn the sorcerer-like abilities into feats instead. Metamagic feat (for any caster). Dragon heritage Feat (for anyone). Wild Magic Feat (needs a casting aspect, or possibly could also activate off the using of magic items - so, yeah, anyone feat).

Tada!

Don't be mean...but kinda right. Sorcerer needs more to be unique.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Don't be mean...but kinda right. Sorcerer needs more to be unique.

Nod. The Sorcerer started out with nothing but Spontaneous Casting to differentiate it. No one got spontaneous anything in 4e, so *poof* no Sorcerer, just another arcane striker with a 100+ unique, blasty powers. 5e comes along all the Vancian Casters get Spontaneous Casting (feast or famine), still nothing left for the Sorcerer.

The 5e Sorcerer really does feel a bit like the 3.5, though, it does lock in a few spells and meta-magic them, so you can use it to build to a more specific concept than you can with a Vancian caster - at the price of being Tier 2. Not all bad.

 

[Hathorym]

Don't be mean...but kinda right. Sorcerer needs more to be unique.

Have you tried building your own archetype that allows to create what you want?

 

[MoonSong]

Nod. The Sorcerer started out with nothing but Spontaneous Casting to differentiate it. No one got spontaneous anything in 4e, so *poof* no Sorcerer, just another arcane striker with a 100+ unique, blasty powers. 5e comes along all the Vancian Casters get Spontaneous Casting (feast or famine), still nothing left for the Sorcerer.

The 5e Sorcerer really does feel a bit like the 3.5, though, it does lock in a few spells and meta-magic them, so you can use it to build to a more specific concept than you can with a Vancian caster - at the price of being Tier 2. Not all bad.

It wasn't just spontaneous casting -which is a big deal in the edition, even when limited it changed everything- it was a different story, a very inviting "this caster can come from anywhere and still do the great things the more square mages can do." Charisma as a casting stat invited different personalities. In contrast 5e says "you can do magic, but you look like a hideous monster and can only fry stuff, wanted different? sorry you should have loved the wizard"

Have you tried building your own archetype that allows to create what you want?

And what good does it do me if I still don't get to play it? How many Online and AL DMs you know that answer to "please out of the fifty people who want in include me in your game, oh and let me play this homebrew I did myself, it isn't broken I swear. Oh yes the designers refuse to do something like this, but I swear I'm not a munchkin" with a "sure, welcome! I have twenty people who want to play by the book which would cause me less headaches but sure!"? (A lot of DMs just say no the moment you mention multiclassing)

 

[psychophipps]

I agree completely. The consensus with our group is you go Sorcerer to level 5-6 for the Sorcery Points and run Warlock the rest of the way. Pretty sad when a main class character option is only deemed good enough to be used to pump up another character class because after less than 1/3 of the way to max level another casting class leaves it in the dust.