Do you consider 4e D&D "newbie teeball"?

[BryonD]

You base this "fact" on that some people have said that is the case?

Saying something is a fact, doesn't make it so.

Considering who some of those people are, I'll stay with it.
But, if you disagree then as far as you are concerned my critical comments are aimed only at the praise these certain people are providing and have no bearing on the game itself.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

To clarify your statement in my mind, do you believe, for example, that preparing a 10th level Druid NPC, for example, or a Pit Fiend as a larger example, by the rules in 3E for use against a party is trivial, compared to the work in preparing a similar threat against a group of PCs in 4E?

For varying degrees of "by the rules," yes: it's trivial.

Knowing the druid's statblock down to the last skill point is slavish devotion to "by the rules," but you will not see a return on that investment in effort.

Switching to 4e is certainly one solution. It's not the most obvious solution, nor is it the most satisfactory solution if there are indispensable elements of 3e that you are not willing to sacrifice for the savings in effort that 4e provides.

 

[Obryn]

Is anyone OTHER than Byron making this claim, or is this thread just "Everyone arguing with one guy's view"?

Because all the posters in the world aren't going to change a person's opinion if they're that opinionated.

That's pretty much it.

I'm in it for the comedy. Sometimes the rules of ENWorld make for some hilarious dancing around the edge of a topic. You can almost see the thought process, "Well, I really want to say this, but I might get modded, so instead I'll say... well, this, but it doesn't make much sense and it's kinda vague. Gosh, I hope nobody asks me to explain my point more clearly and make me cross the line!"

-O

 

[BryonD]

To clarify your statement in my mind, do you believe, for example, that preparing a 10th level Druid NPC, for example, or a Pit Fiend as a larger example, by the rules in 3E for use against a party is trivial, compared to the work in preparing a similar threat against a group of PCs in 4E?

I've run very fun games at L10+ that went in unexpected directions and were run "on the fly".

Since the total effort is trivial, whatever portion is "extra" is also trivial.

Now, if I WANT to sit down and really build a detailed 10th level druid I know that I could spend a lot of time on it. IF I WANTED TO. And in that case I would enjoy it. But that effort is completely optional.

 

[BryonD]

Is anyone OTHER than Byron making this claim, or is this thread just "Everyone arguing with one guy's view"?

Because all the posters in the world aren't going to change a person's opinion if they're that opinionated.

Hush you!!! I've got at least 6 minutes left.

And it isn't really a claim, just a description.

And it's Bryon.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Is anyone OTHER than Byron making this claim, or is this thread just "Everyone arguing with one guy's view"?

That's pretty much it.

Well, I'm not sure I am following Bryon's premise to the same conclusion, but I certainly understand his point and feel no need to misrepresent it.

I'm in it for the comedy. Sometimes the rules of ENWorld make for some hilarious dancing around the edge of a topic. You can almost see the thought process, "Well, I really want to say this, but I might get modded, so instead I'll say...

I would like to make a tangential comment about people who have the intelligence to model complex global climate patterns but don't have the sense to come in out of the friggin rain.

 

[Rechan]

but I certainly understand his point and feel no need to misrepresent it.
I don't think it's misrepresented when the guy is very forward and clear about his point.

 

[Hussar]

I've run very fun games at L10+ that went in unexpected directions and were run "on the fly".

Since the total effort is trivial, whatever portion is "extra" is also trivial.

Now, if I WANT to sit down and really build a detailed 10th level druid I know that I could spend a lot of time on it. IF I WANTED TO. And in that case I would enjoy it. But that effort is completely optional.

A question.

How long did it take you to arrive at the point where you knew which parts you could leave off of that prep and which parts you needed?

I agree, you can whip out a high level caster pretty quick if you only worry about four or five spells, maybe a companion and nothing else.

But, ignoring a significant portion of the rules and then claiming that it's a strength of the system seems a bit contrary. If the system was aiding you, why do you have to eject a significant portion of it in order to cut your workload?

 

[billd91]

But, ignoring a significant portion of the rules and then claiming that it's a strength of the system seems a bit contrary. If the system was aiding you, why do you have to eject a significant portion of it in order to cut your workload?

It's not contrary at all. It's there when I want it or feel I need it for a particular application.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

How long did it take you to arrive at the point where you knew which parts you could leave off of that prep and which parts you needed?

Why do you ask? Are you suggesting that 4e doesn't require the same level of system mastery as 3e?

Ignoring a significant portion of the rules and then claiming that it's a strength of the system seems a bit contrary.

You can paint an entire army of miniatures with a standard #1 brush (and I have) but I certainly appreciate having that #00 in there for painting my army commanders. I might even get crazy and paint on the pupils with a #0000.

The fact that I don't often use the #0000 does not make it redundant nor unnecessary. The existence of the #0000 in my paint kit is a strength.

This is not a contrary position.

Of course, the basic starter miniatures painting kit will often not include high quality, fine detail brushes, and someone who limits himself to the starter kit is unlikely to develop into a world-class miniatures painter.