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D&D 5E Do you like or dislike Song & Steeal Dragons being demoted to Folklore?

Do you like or dislike Song & Steeal Dragons being demoted to Folklore?

  • I hate or Dislike the removal of Steel and Song Dragons as type of Dragon

    Votes: 14 19.4%
  • I like or love the removal of Steel and Song Dragons as a type of Dragon

    Votes: 9 12.5%
  • Neutral as a Gem Dragon

    Votes: 49 68.1%

  • Total voters
    72

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Has anyone told Karasendrieth that she is a copper dragon and not a song dragon?

Ok I am going to pretend I did not read that and I am never going to buy Fizban!
Because you disagree with one sidebar that could easily be interpreted as "They may indeed exist, but they're shapeshifters, so it's hard to prove, so many just assume that they are silver or copper."
 


I just don't get how anything can be 'just folk lore' in the kitchen sink of D&D.
Yeah exactly, it's a cretinous notion that just makes zero sense in a D&D context. There'll be somewhere on the Prime Material that they exist - maybe they're "folklore" in the FR but real in Greyhawk or whatever, but "folklore" generally? That's just crappy lore writing.
 

AcererakTriple6

Autistic DM (he/him)
I am never going to buy Fizban!
Well, buying Fizban is going to be pretty difficult. Do you mean a miniature of Fizban? Because I'm not sure if those exist. Or if it's the rights to the character that you would buy, that would be pretty pricy, and is wholly dependent on WotC being willing to sell the character to you, which is even more unlikely than the first interpretation. Either way, it doesn't look good for the people that want to buy Fizban, so not trying to buy him seems like a smart move to me.

/s
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Well, buying Fizban is going to be pretty difficult. Do you mean a miniature of Fizban? Because I'm not sure if those exist. Or if it's the rights to the character that you would buy, that would be pretty pricy, and is wholly dependent on WotC being willing to sell the character to you, which is even more unlikely than the first interpretation. Either way, it doesn't look good for the people that want to buy Fizban, so not trying to buy him seems like a smart move to me.

/s
Remember boys and girls, Fizban is on Krynn, which means you have to buy him with steel dragons. Oh.........................wait.
 

steeldragons

Steeliest of the dragons
I who what, now? :unsure:
steeldragon.jpg
 



Uni-the-Unicorn!

Adventurer
Well, I mean...

^That.

You can scrape off the Mayo and pretend it's a Bloated Toad-Like dragon, but if it uses the same breath weapon, frightful presence, legendary resistances, and stuff it's gonna -taste- the same
Then don’t.

The issue as I see isn’t that the MM dragons don’t make good “degenerate” dragons, they do, it is that the don’t really have much to make them awesome magical dragons. You either have to add spellcasting or lair actions to make them seem like unique magical creatures, otherwise they do look like wild beasts.
 

Uni-the-Unicorn!

Adventurer
So are you telling me there are no more Song Dragons? I figured they would be featured in Fizban. Is this not the case?
Why the heck would they be featured? I’m a long time player and I have never heard of them before. I don’t think they made it into any previous draconomicon, not 2e, 3e, or 4e. So why do you suddenly expect them to be “featured” in the 5e version? That is quite an odd assumption give the games history.
 

So two things here.

First, I mentioned the "fix" in Dungeon of the Mad Mage if you want to create a steel dragon. Basically, you just use the silver dragon as a base, and replace its breath weapon with a line of acid and its cold immunity with acid immunity. And although it doesn't give directions for a song dragon, given that song dragons are often compared to coppers, just use the copper dragon as a base and replace its breath weapon with a cone of lightning and replace the acid immunity with lightning immunity.

Secondly... wait, that means there's already a canonical steel dragon in 5e! So if you don't like the "folklore" line from Fizban's, you can use the fact that a steel dragon appears in Dungeon of the Mad Mage as evidence that that rumor is incorrect.

(I'm assuming that Wyatt or whoever wrote that sidebar was unaware of this steel dragon's existence)
 

Ath-kethin

Elder Thing
I feel it's a step in the right direction. Now if we can just get the various gods described as folklore instead of Really Powerful But Also Really Existing Monsters (tm), we will be on to something.

I mean seriously, Al-Qadim did it, Eberron did it, why can't everyone else catch up?
 


Yeah exactly, it's a cretinous notion that just makes zero sense in a D&D context. There'll be somewhere on the Prime Material that they exist - maybe they're "folklore" in the FR but real in Greyhawk or whatever, but "folklore" generally? That's just crappy lore writing.

It makes no sense in FR either, there is a pile of Song & Steel Dragons established lore and characters in FR, including major characters in novels. Heck there is a Steel Dragon in one of 5e's own adventurers. I just don't get why they do stuff like this, it just seems designed for no other function then to make fans of those Dragon types and established settings mad. It serves no function. it makes no sense. it's just just frustrating.
 


ECMO3

Adventurer
Why the heck would they be featured? I’m a long time player and I have never heard of them before. I don’t think they made it into any previous draconomicon, not 2e, 3e, or 4e. So why do you suddenly expect them to be “featured” in the 5e version? That is quite an odd assumption give the games history.
Because it is pretty hard to reconcile the history of Rise of Tiamat and the dragon cult when part of the cannon surrounding the first uprising and the reason for its failure is tied closely around the actions of a Song Dragon (and a Vampire Red Dragon) ....... or maybe that is not cannon any more.
 

dave2008

Legend
Because it is pretty hard to reconcile the history of Rise of Tiamat and the dragon cult when part of the cannon surrounding the first uprising and the reason for its failure is tied closely around the actions of a Song Dragon (and a Vampire Red Dragon) ....... or maybe that is not cannon any more.
Yep, not part of 5e. That is in a different edition.
 


Yep, not part of 5e. That is in a different edition.
Although, as I said above, while that might be the case for song dragons, there is a steel dragon in a 5e product.

But anyway, it's really all a tempest in a teapot. The whole "Folklore" bit makes it possible for them to exist if you want, or easy to ignore if you don't. I guess people just want certainty, even if giving them options allows for more choice...
 

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