D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

[Micah Sweet]

It's pretty mild as far as worldbuilding goes.

I don't disagree but 'it's written in the text of the game we have all agreed to play' is a fairly clear default position absent further discussion.

Well, I want that further discussion, because verisimilitude in the setting is a very high priority to me. It is, in fact, the thing I most enjoy out of GMing.

 

[Stormonu]

I've been trying to stay out of this, but I give up.

Stranger In a Strange Land scenario:

Folk Hero: PC arrives in new town. Assuming a small bit of downtime, the PC meets and some way makes an impression on a local family - lends them a coin to pay a bill, stands up to a local bully, helps take home the groceries, makes a friendly, casual comment to a local that starts a further conversation. By nightfall, they've made such an impression that the family offers them a place to stay for the night.

Criminal: After a downtime stop at the local tavern, the character espies someone of questionable standing. The PC approaches the individual, and after a short interaction, makes a favorable impression - enough to either get the information directly from the individual or being able to pass a query or note to someone who will.

Noble: PC approaches the estate of a well-to-do gentry or noble and calls on the rules of largesse or presents themselves in a manner that the individual is either curious enough about "this strange fellow" or impressed enough to entertain and board them for the night.

You can certainly roleplay these out, or there can be the assumption that this happens in the background between PC activity (like not RPing bathroom breaks).

Moreover, I think this a playstle issue - preconstructed world vs. potential world. @Oofta strikes me as someone who prefers "if I didn't say/plan it already existed then it can't exist" (i.e., "it's not on my maps or in my notes, so no.") vs. leaving things open and undefined until they aren't - the player asking, "Hey, is there a library in this town?" and the DM shrugging and saying "sure, the town's large enough for one" and then marking one of the unlabeled buildings as the location on the map (if one exists). I feel I fall more into the latter, though I reserve the right to require a roll or two to make things interesting, or deny it should the situation warrant it (or I feel the PC is being abusive about the ability in some way).

Having played various characters in 5E with these backgrounds, it is to me VERY satisfying when I can get to use these features in play and have the opportunity to lead to RP interactions, scenes or story. But I also try to be understanding when the DM says "no" because it detracts from the game in some way.

 

[Oofta]

Why would it be automatically and instantly? Why wouldn't you play it out?


I agree in that situation (which seems very much an edge case BTW) the onus is on the player to come up with a reason why it would work. And that the GM should refuse if they can't.

All of the scenarios I've discussed have been from games I've DMed or played in. Well, the goblin town being visited by a dwarf was actually an elven town but goblins and dwarves being at war in the recent past seemed more common.

BUT I would also say there's still a lot of room in that situation for a sincere, helpful, or generous Folk Hero to talk their way into a position of empathy and make the ability work.

I quoted the text from the book. Unless you've done something to prove yourself untrustworthy, you can always get shelter from a commoner. No introductions necessary, just walk up to a commoner's door and they'll let you hide in the barn. Nothing else is required.

It is, of course, your prerogative to ignore the rules as written.

 

[Oofta]

I've been trying to stay out of this, but I give up.

Stranger In a Strange Land scenario:

Folk Hero: PC arrives in new town. Assuming a small bit of downtime, the PC meets and some way makes an impression on a local family - lends them a coin to pay a bill, stands up to a local bully, helps take home the groceries, makes a friendly, casual comment to a local that starts a further conversation. By nightfall, they've made such an impression that the family offers them a place to stay for the night.

Criminal: After a downtime stop at the local tavern, the character espies someone of questionable standing. The PC approaches the individual, and after a short interaction, makes a favorable impression - enough to either get the information directly from the individual or being able to pass a query or note to someone who will.

Noble: PC approaches the estate of a well-to-do gentry or noble and calls on the rules of largesse or presents themselves in a manner that the individual is either curious enough about "this strange fellow" or impressed enough to entertain and board them for the night.

You can certainly roleplay these out, or there can be the assumption that this happens in the background between PC activity (like not RPing bathroom breaks).

Moreover, I think this a playstle issue - preconstructed world vs. potential world. @Oofta strikes me as someone who prefers "if I didn't say/plan it already existed then it can't exist" (i.e., "it's not on my maps or in my notes, so no.") vs. leaving things open and undefined until they aren't - the player asking, "Hey, is there a library in this town?" and the DM shrugging and saying "sure, the town's large enough for one" and then marking one of the unlabeled buildings as the location on the map (if one exists). I feel I fall more into the latter, though I reserve the right to require a roll or two to make things interesting, or deny it should the situation warrant it (or I feel the PC is being abusive about the ability in some way).

Having played various characters in 5E with these backgrounds, it is to me VERY satisfying when I can get to use these features in play and have the opportunity to lead to RP interactions, scenes or story. But I also try to be understanding when the DM says "no" because it detracts from the game in some way.

I have an established world that I've been using for decades. If someone wants to add details to that world it's fine, it's just not going to be on the fly and I want editorial control because they may not know something about the world that I or other players are aware of. Assuming of course it's something that has broader impact. I don't run a narrative game, that doesn't mean I think of everything possible or that I would want to do so. If I'm uncertain whether something would exist and it doesn't contradict preestablished lore or key plot point that has yet to be revealed I may ask for a die roll.

As far as backgrounds being useful part of RP, first the vast majority of players don't care in my experience. Second if a PC's backstory matters to a player more than just a quick sentence or two, we'll figure out a way to fit it in and have it matter. I regularly tie backstory and character goals into the broader campaign, I just don't want a hard code feature for that.

 

[soviet]

All of the scenarios I've discussed have been from games I've DMed or played in. Well, the goblin town being visited by a dwarf was actually an elven town but goblins and dwarves being at war in the recent past seemed more common.


I quoted the text from the book. Unless you've done something to prove yourself untrustworthy, you can always get shelter from a commoner. No introductions necessary, just walk up to a commoner's door and they'll let you hide in the barn. Nothing else is required.

?

That isn't what the book says at all.

 

[Oofta]

?

That isn't what the book says at all.

I quoted the text from the basic rules. It's quite clear (bold added).

Feature: Rustic Hospitality​

Since you come from the ranks of the common folk, you fit in among them with ease. You can find a place to hide, rest, or recuperate among other commoners, unless you have shown yourself to be a danger to them. They will shield you from the law or anyone else searching for you, though they will not risk their lives for you.​

​

How is that not an automatic feature that you do not have to expend any effort on getting if you follow the rule as written?

Something similar with the noble background

Feature: Position of Privilege​

Thanks to your noble birth, people are inclined to think the best of you. You are welcome in high society, and people assume you have the right to be wherever you are. The common folk make every effort to accommodate you and avoid your displeasure, and other people of high birth treat you as a member of the same social sphere. You can secure an audience with a local noble if you need to.​

​

One that I think is better worded

Feature: Researcher​

When you attempt to learn or recall a piece of lore, if you do not know that information, you often know where and from whom you can obtain it. Usually, this information comes from a library, scriptorium, university, or a sage or other learned person or creature. Your DM might rule that the knowledge you seek is secreted away in an almost inaccessible place, or that it simply cannot be found. Unearthing the deepest secrets of the multiverse can require an adventure or even a whole campaign.​

​

The researcher makes it clear - you're more likely than many others to know how to find information, but it's clearly stated that it's not automatic. It provides possible hooks for the DM, in that you may know that the information you seek exists but may not be easy to find.

I wouldn't have a problem with the background features if they were written like the Researcher, but they aren't. Change "You can find a place..." to something like "You can frequently connect with commoners allowing you to find a place..." and we're good to go. But there are no conditionals to the Position of Privilege for the noble background. Doesn't matter if the noble you want an audience with is a lifelong enemy of your house sworn on vengeance to the last of the bloodline you can always get an audience if you need to if you follow the rules as written.

 

[soviet]

I quoted the text from the basic rules. It's quite clear (bold added).

Feature: Rustic Hospitality​

Since you come from the ranks of the common folk, you fit in among them with ease. You can find a place to hide, rest, or recuperate among other commoners, unless you have shown yourself to be a danger to them. They will shield you from the law or anyone else searching for you, though they will not risk their lives for you.​

​

How is that not an automatic feature that you do not have to expend any effort on getting if you follow the rule as written?

Something similar with the noble background

Feature: Position of Privilege​

Thanks to your noble birth, people are inclined to think the best of you. You are welcome in high society, and people assume you have the right to be wherever you are. The common folk make every effort to accommodate you and avoid your displeasure, and other people of high birth treat you as a member of the same social sphere. You can secure an audience with a local noble if you need to.​

​

One that I think is better worded

Feature: Researcher​

When you attempt to learn or recall a piece of lore, if you do not know that information, you often know where and from whom you can obtain it. Usually, this information comes from a library, scriptorium, university, or a sage or other learned person or creature. Your DM might rule that the knowledge you seek is secreted away in an almost inaccessible place, or that it simply cannot be found. Unearthing the deepest secrets of the multiverse can require an adventure or even a whole campaign.​

​

The researcher makes it clear - you're more likely than many others to know how to find information, but it's clearly stated that it's not automatic. It provides possible hooks for the DM, in that you may know that the information you seek exists but may not be easy to find.

I wouldn't have a problem with the background features if they were written like the Researcher, but they aren't. Change "You can find a place..." to something like "You can frequently connect with commoners allowing you to find a place..." and we're good to go. But there are no conditionals to the Position of Privilege for the noble background. Doesn't matter if the noble you want an audience with is a lifelong enemy of your house sworn on vengeance to the last of the bloodline you can always get an audience if you need to if you follow the rules as written.

You're confusing resolution and narration.

Do you let players just say 'I roll diplomacy against the guard' with no further description or setup?

 

[tetrasodium]

You're confusing resolution and narration.

Do you let players just say 'I roll diplomacy against the guard' with no further description or setup?

The trouble is that the background features regularly present success as a given and are explicit about setting player expectations for that success. See the earlier "why does the gm get to decide if [a background feature] is relevant" & the statement that triggered it as an example of that misplaced expectation.

 

[Oofta]

You're confusing resolution and narration.

Do you let players just say 'I roll diplomacy against the guard' with no further description or setup?

You seem to be ignoring what the rule states. You can talk to the commoners for a bit, but unless the DM is overriding the rules the commoners will find a place to hide amongst commoners. The noble can chat his way up the bureaucracy a bit, but if you follow the letter of the rules it's just inconsequential fluff that will not change the outcome. It doesn't matter if your noble houses are feuding like the Hatfields and McCoys, unless you ignore the rule a noble from the Hatfield noble family could always get an audience with the McCoy family. It doesn't matter if your noble house is completely unknown. There are no exceptions.

 

[soviet]

The trouble is that the background features regularly present success as a given and are explicit about setting player expectations for that success. See the earlier "why does the gm get to decide if [a background feature] is relevant" & the statement that triggered it as an example and f that misplaced expectation.

Sure but what I'm saying is that's how the ability is resolved. It's like automatically getting a success on the metaphorical dice roll. But that doesn't mean you don't still have to earn that metaphorical dice roll in your description and roleplaying. You wouldn't let players just say 'I diplomacy the guard, oh look natural 20', right? You'd want them to describe or act out how they approach the guard, what they're trying to achieve, what they offer them, etc. Then you'd roll the dice.