D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

[Faolyn]

that is like saying the mailman is not important, the only one that matters is the recipient... no mailman, no delivery

Sure, let's look at mailpeople. If I can't get the USPS to send my message, I can use the phone, email, UPS, FedEx, other courier services (google shows me about six or seven other companies nearish to me), asking a neighbor or friend to deliver it for me, hand-delivering it myself, asking the recipient to pick it up... there's a lot of options.

The mailman--or the messengers in the feature--are not the important part. The important part is getting the attention of the contact. I don't need a messenger if I (or another member of the party) can cast sending or animal messenger, for instance, but the feature itself remains useful to me, because I know the contact, not the forger or fence or illicit dealer I need.

In last night's game (I am not the DM), the warlock (not a criminal), who is using the UA Raven Queen pact, used their pact feature raven (not a familiar) to send a message.

(Please tell me you're not so ridiculously picky that you wouldn't let the feature work if the criminal got in touch with their contact via a non-messenger way.)

or not, none of this is spelled out by the feature, your contact is not all knowing and can help everywhere and with everything

The purpose of the contact it to liaise with the criminal network. Maybe they don't know a guy for everything, but they're going to know a guy for many things.

Edit: This is spelled out. "You have a reliable and trustworthy contact who acts as your liaison to a network of other criminals." What do you think this network of other criminals is for?

sure, I am questioning that it works everywhere and all the time

Nothing works everywhere all the time. But that's not a reason to decide it simply doesn't work at all.

that is another thing, it is also not instantaneous, it might take months, even years, to hear back...

OK. So? Did you really think that I was serious when I mentioned cell phones?

maybe, but that still is not my contact, so not a use of this feature

So? Does the feature say you can only have one contact and you can never gain any new messengers? Does the feature stop working if you do? No, it doesn't.

You seem to not care about how anything works, just as long as you can always get a message to your contact (apparently you do not even care if it is your contact, just as long as someone gets the message...). It's basically all inexplicable and illogical but still somehow reliable despite this. I am not interested in that.

And you would be completely wrong about this. What I am is caring about both the rules and the fiction at the same time, and what I do is spend more than a few seconds thinking about how something can work before deciding it's inexplicable or illogical.

 

[Cadence]

Nothing works everywhere all the time. But that's not a reason to decide it simply doesn't work at all.

Would it be accurate to say you lean on the side of it working if it is at all plausible, give them something even if its not what they want, and there are sometimes where it just won't but maybe signal that to the player before they invest a lot in it if you know its coming?

 

[Faolyn]

It say "you can", earlier, when talking about getting free passage on a ship. The "might" is just a qualifier for how the "you can" could appear in the fiction.

The real debate is whether "you can" is permissive (equating to "you might") or absolute (equating to "you can always"). I, and I suspect numerous others, read it as the latter.

I'm taking "can" and "might" to both mean "you should have the ability to at least try to, via die rolls and/or roleplaying."

 

[mamba]

Sure, let's look at mailpeople. If I can't get the USPS to send my message, I can use the phone, email, UPS, FedEx, other courier services (google shows me about six or seven other companies nearish to me), asking a neighbor or friend to deliver it for me, hand-delivering it myself, asking the recipient to pick it up... there's a lot of options.

somehow I doubt they are available in Ravenloft, or that they could deliver even if they did.

The mailman--or the messengers in the feature--are not the important part. The important part is getting the attention of the contact. I don't need a messenger if I (or another member of the party) can cast sending or animal messenger, for instance, but the feature itself remains useful to me, because I know the contact, not the forger or fence or illicit dealer I need.

who the messenger is is not important, that there is one however is

In last night's game (I am not the DM), the warlock (not a criminal), who is using the UA Raven Queen pact, used their pact feature raven (not a familiar) to send a message.

(Please tell me you're not so ridiculously picky that you wouldn't let the feature work if the criminal got in touch with their contact via a non-messenger way.)

if they have a way of contacting their contact in some other form, no, the problem is they probably have none, otherwise we would not be discussing their feature in the first place. Ultimately not relevant to the question however.

The purpose of the contact it to liaise with the criminal network. Maybe they don't know a guy for everything, but they're going to know a guy for many things.

in their corner of the world maybe, everywhere else.... but this is just leading us more astray

Nothing works everywhere all the time.

Thank you, I rest my case

But that's not a reason to decide it simply doesn't work at all.

I agree, but that was not the original question, I sometime back did agree that they would have an easier time making contacts with some shady figures in Ravenloft

OK. So? Did you really think that I was serious when I mentioned cell phones?

no, I am just pointing out that there are yet other considerations as to whether the feature is useful in a given situation, even if it were working

So? Does the feature say you can only have one contact and you can never gain any new messengers? Does the feature stop working if you do? No, it doesn't.

I also do not make use of the feature when I establish new contacts within Ravenloft, I just do

 

[Maxperson]

I also do not make use of the feature when I establish new contacts within Ravenloft, I just do

Sure, but once you do establish the new contact via roleplaying, the ability should now work within that domain in Ravenloft. It might take some time and travel, but you could eventually set up contacts in each domain.

 

[Cadence]

Sure, but once you do establish the new contact via roleplaying, the ability should now work within that domain in Ravenloft. It might take some time and travel, but you could eventually set up contacts in each domain.

This gives me an opening to ask something I was pondering...

Should backgrounds develop, or are they things that happened in the past and there they are? If the later, then should the game award backgrounds as players do things? If you literally save the peasants in the kingdom from the horde of slavers that tried to take over, then why aren't you a "Hero of the People"? If you've spent ten levels of advancement and a year in game time sailing the seas, do you get "Sailor"? If not, what exactly did your (possibly) late teen/young adult character do that was more!?

 

[Faolyn]

Would it be accurate to say you lean on the side of it working if it is at all plausible, give them something even if its not what they want, and there are sometimes where it just won't but maybe signal that to the player before they invest a lot in it if you know its coming?

Yes, exactly. And yes, I will often ask the PC how they justify their ability..

The goal is for everyone to have fun. To just cut of an ability for a random reason isn't fun.

 

[Maxperson]

This gives me an opening to ask something I was pondering...

Should backgrounds develop, or are they things that happened in the past and there they are? If the later, then should the game award backgrounds as players do things? If you literally save the peasants in the kingdom from the horde of slavers that tried to take over, then why aren't you a "Hero of the People"? If you've spent ten levels of advancement and a year in game time sailing the seas, do you get "Sailor"? If not, what exactly did your (possibly) late teen/young adult character do that was more!?

Both? The background comes from before you begin adventuring, but there's no reason to think that they cannot be built upon as the game is played.

In my game I do occasionally just outright award a player a feat, class ability from another class or subclass, etc. if the roleplaying situation warrants it. I don't see why backgrounds should be any different and if the situation warranted, I'd award one to a PC.

 

[Oofta]

Yes, exactly. And yes, I will often ask the PC how they justify their ability..

The goal is for everyone to have fun. To just cut of an ability for a random reason isn't fun.

If I don't allow any feature or background, it won't be for a "random" reason. You may not agree with what I restrict or why, but calling it "random" is pretty inflammatory.

 

[Faolyn]

somehow I doubt they are available in Ravenloft, or that they could deliver even if they did.

Other people have already brought up the Vistani. Depending on how the DM plays them and the PCs interact with them, they could be anywhere from "unavailable" to "available, but not unreliable," to "available and totally reliable."

who the messenger is is not important, that there is one however is

No; it's getting the message to the contact that's important.

if they have a way of contacting their contact in some other form, no, the problem is they probably have none, otherwise we would not be discussing their feature in the first place. Ultimately not relevant to the question however.

I've given multiple possible ways one can contact the contact. Magic, dead drops, establishing new messengers. All of these things are well within the capabilities of most adventuring parties.

So it's completely relevant. The only reason you think it's not is because you seem to think the messenger is more important than the contact or what the contact does.

in their corner of the world maybe, everywhere else.... but this is just leading us more astray

The actual feature literally says that you can get a messenger "over great distances."

Thank you, I rest my case

Since I never claimed that the ability would work all the time, I don't understand what your "case" is. This isn't a gotcha.

I also do not make use of the feature when I establish new contacts within Ravenloft, I just do

Well, since the feature isn't about establishing new contacts (that's what roleplay is for) but about using the contact(s) you've made to liaise with criminal networks, I don't get your point.