D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

[UngeheuerLich]

And they are buying concert tickets, fast food, going on dates, going to amusement parks and so on. All of those prices have skyrocketed as well. They may not be worried about rent, but the average high schooler doesn't work part time at In-N-Out, either. The average high schooler doesn't have a job.

Also, where is it said that the majority of players(the average player) are in high school?

Yes. But still the books are comparably cheaper. So maybe those kids should save on fast food. Would be more healthy on top.
If I look at my expenses, I drink to much coffee to go... that alone would buy me a D&D book per month at least.

 

[Oofta]

It sucks if you can't afford the books, but that does not change that the books are cheaper than they've ever been while having a higher page count. WotC can't do anything about the cost of living, all they can control is how much they charge for the books.

At this point I wouldn't be too surprised if they make very little money on the core books and instead get most of their profit from licensing, DDB and modules.

 

[Lanefan]

Once you get to 19-24, now you are in college and while more college kids work than don't, they are also spending a ton of that money on food, parties, booze, video games, etc. D&D is still going to be a very costly expense.

Thing is, unlike those other things, D&D is - or certainly can be - largely a one-time buy.

You get the PH, some dice, a few character minis, and you're set for life as a player. One-time buy.

The DM also needs to get the other books, maybe a few adventure modules, something (chalkboard, whiteboard, whatever) to draw maps and put the minis on, and some props or chess pieces or whatever to stand in for monsters. One-time buy except for adventures, which can be a minor ongoing expense until-unless a DM becomes proficient in adventure creation; and printer ink (always a ripoff!) and paper with which to print out said homebrew adventures unless written with pen and paper..

 

[Oofta]

Thing is, unlike those other things, D&D is - or certainly can be - largely a one-time buy.

You get the PH, some dice, a few character minis, and you're set for life as a player. One-time buy.

The DM also needs to get the other books, maybe a few adventure modules, something (chalkboard, whiteboard, whatever) to draw maps and put the minis on, and some props or chess pieces or whatever to stand in for monsters. One-time buy except for adventures, which can be a minor ongoing expense until-unless a DM becomes proficient in adventure creation; and printer ink (always a ripoff!) and paper with which to print out said homebrew adventures unless written with pen and paper..

Per hour of play, D&D is still an incredibly cheap hobby comparatively.

 

[Belen]

Per hour of play, D&D is still an incredibly cheap hobby comparatively.

For a player who just owns the PHB, then sure.

For a DM...

I did not have to buy every book in print and DDB although my players sure love campaign access via DDB.

If you are really into the hobby, then it can cost several thousand per year via kickstarters and traditional publishers.

80% of the public pays for 1 book. A lot of DMs I know will own the 3 core books in print and VTT. They will pay for a DDB subscription. They will probably have 1-3 extra PHBs to loan out during gameday.

I am usually not a big fan of the cost per hour argument because some folks will see that 50 dollar book as rent or food or utility.

 

[Cadence]

For a player who just owns the PHB, then sure.

For a DM...

I did not have to buy every book in print and DDB although my players sure love campaign access via DDB.

If you are really into the hobby, then it can cost several thousand per year via kickstarters and traditional publishers.

Every hobby can be made expensive. So I'm not sure what brining that up does when the argument is about affordability?

80% of the public pays for 1 book. A lot of DMs I know will own the 3 core books in print and VTT. They will pay for a DDB subscription. They will probably have 1-3 extra PHBs to loan out during gameday.

I am usually not a big fan of the cost per hour argument because some folks will see that 50 dollar book as rent or food or utility.

For D&D, there is a free online set of the rules if $50 is too much (or whatever a used copy costs). And only one person needs access to it (back in the day when we wanted to try a game we would pass the book around).


At some point I'm not sure what the point of arguing against it being a cheap hobby is?

 

[Lanefan]

For a player who just owns the PHB, then sure.

For a DM...

I did not have to buy every book in print and DDB although my players sure love campaign access via DDB.

If you are really into the hobby, then it can cost several thousand per year via kickstarters and traditional publishers.

We're not talking about those "really into the hobby", though; we're talking about the new (and perhaps casual) group and what they need to get started and keep going.

80% of the public pays for 1 book. A lot of DMs I know will own the 3 core books in print and VTT. They will pay for a DDB subscription. They will probably have 1-3 extra PHBs to loan out during gameday.

I am usually not a big fan of the cost per hour argument because some folks will see that 50 dollar book as rent or food or utility.

And for that one month it might well be that. But with a physical book, it's just for that one month; unlike a subscription service which really does drag on forever.

 

[Belen]

At some point I'm not sure what the point of arguing against it being a cheap hobby is?

I really enjoy debating people on ENW?

I think it is a valid argument for folks.

 

[Maxperson]

I imagine someone from the midwest might point out that there are a lot more people living in the midwest than there are in California, and that maybe it is Calfiornia making the rest of the country look bad?

The entirety of the midwest is 67 million. California has 40 million. 12 states have a bit more than 50% more than 1 state. Add in New York and it's 59 million to 67 million.

Anyway, some random numbers with links. You do "win" :-( in terms of gas prices. The rent increase looks like it is actually less than Cook County (albeit much higher than the corn fields of Illinois as a whole). The change in per capita income is also higher in California. It looks like Illinois has clearly been beating California in terms of cost of living (as in, less of an increase).

Average California gas price October 6, 2014 $3.666 - May 13, 2024 $5.046 (+37.6%)
Average LA gas price October 6, 2014 $3.689 - May 13, 2024 $4.941 (+33.9%)
Average US gas price October 6, 2014, $3.299 - May 13, 2024 $3.643 (+10.4%)
Average Midwest Region Gas Price October 6, 2014 $3.195 - May 13, 2024 $3.396 (+6.3%)
Average Chicago gas price October 6, 2014 $3.496 - May 13, 2024 $4.028 (+15.2%)

United States Gas Price History

Get data on a variety of issues pertaining to Nashville and the rest of Davidson County, Tennessee.United States Gas Price History

data.tennessean.com

California 2-Bedroom Fair Market Rent 2014 $1060 - $1788 (+68.7%)
LA County 2- Bedroom Fair Market Rent 2014 $1890 - $3263 (+72.6%)
Illinois 2-Bedroom Fair Market Rent 2014 $680 - $893 (+31.3%)
Cook County 2-Bedroom Fair Market Rent 2014 $1248 - $2182 (+74.8%)

2024 Fair Market Rent by State | RentData.org

www.rentdata.org

California Per Capita Income 2014 $49,985 - 2023 $80,423 (+60.9%)
Illinois Per Capita Income 2014 $47,643 - 2023 $70,953 (+48.9%)

https://ssti.org/blog/useful-stats-capita-personal-income-state-2010-2015

2023, Release Tables: Per Capita Personal Income by State, Annual | FRED | St. Louis Fed

Release Table for 2023, Release Tables: Per Capita Personal Income by State, Annual. FRED: Download, graph, and track economic data.

fred.stlouisfed.org

You're doing it again. You are including all of California which is the same mistake as including the midwest. It's a bunch of sparsely populated emptiness that is cheap to live in. Including it distorts the reality of living in California.

I can get a house in the middle of bumpuck nowhere for $175,000 in California. In Los Angeles that house costs $700k for the crapyy ones and $800 to $1m for the decent ones.

The vast majority of your California D&D players aren't going to be in central California. They are going to live in the densely populated and super expensive cities.

 

[Maxperson]

Yes. But still the books are comparably cheaper. So maybe those kids should save on fast food. Would be more healthy on top.
If I look at my expenses, I drink to much coffee to go... that alone would buy me a D&D book per month at least.

As soon as you figure out the magical spell to get kids to save money and not want to eat fast food, I'm sure the rest of the country is going to want to learn it. And you'll be rich!