D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

[Scott Christian]

Again, I don't think there is any "extra work" because most DMs aren't going to put in design work on the kind of mundane details background features allow a player to add. All it requires is an attitude which admits not every detail of the setting has been decided on in advance.

I understand it's not extra work - for you. That is my point. You can insist someone DM just like you, so they don't have this issue. But the reality is there are many DM styles, and for some, it might prove extra work.

 

[Hriston]

Regardless of edition, unless the campaign is very short it'd be a pretty rare sight to see the PCs spend their entire adventurng careers close to home.

Some of the backgrounds noted thus far (sailor, folk hero, etc.) seem intentionally designed to play against the trope of the PCs being strangers in a strange land if-when they travel far afield (e.g. sail across the Great West Ocean as explorers) or off-world, in that with connections like these the game makes sure they can always find friends or allies.

Just one more subtle way in which 5e makes the game easier on its PCs.

They play against the (mostly D&D) trope of the PCs being 'Man with No Name's, having no memory of or connection to their backgrounds. I.e. murder hobos. I'm not sure what value there is in the PCs not being able to find friends or allies when far from home. Even Clint Eastwood's Stranger character in A Fistful of Dollars was helped and hidden by the local coffinmaker, even though his home was someplace other than San Miguel.

 

[Hriston]

you mean apart from being illogical?

No, I mean in any way whatsoever. I've seen no demonstration of an actual problem arising from actual gameplay.

 

[Hriston]

I've answered this question multiple times now and my answer isn't changing. Do what you want. Stop asking questions you already know the answer to.

Well, it wasn't clear to me from your post whether that was your argument or not, so I asked. I don't see how you could have answered that question before since I was asking directly in response to the post I was asking about. I also don't see how I could have known the answer before you'd answered it, but if you don't want to answer it, that's fine.

 

[Oofta]

It doesn't take being recognized, knowing someone, or supernatural backing to "find a place to hide, rest, or recuperate among other commoners" who "will shield you from the law or anyone else searching for you". All it takes is that "you fit in among them with ease" which you do because, as the feature says, "you come from the ranks of the common folk".

The background feature for folk hero states that you automatically find shelter, etc.. Why? You ride into town with 3-5 other individuals, no one knows you, you just walk up to the door of the nearest commoner and say "Hello fellow commoner, we are being hunted by the sheriff, please hide us"? That's ludicrous.

There is no reason to have any kind of instant connection unless you spend time with the people and live with them for a while.

Ship's Passage doesn't say you know someone. It says "you can secure free passage on a sailing ship for yourself and your adventuring companions." A sailor can do this because they "sailed on a seagoing vessel for years." There's nothing supernatural about that.

The sailor background feature states "You might sail on the ship you served on, or another ship you have good relations with (perhaps one captained by a former crewmate)." It literally states in the background feature that you know someone. Which does not always make sense.

There's nothing sudden about being "an experienced criminal with a history of breaking the law" who has "spent a lot of time among other criminals".

Again, the background feature states that wherever you are you can find someone to send a message. How is that supposed to work? Find someone with gang tattoos and say "Hello fellow gang member, please pass this message." Why would they? What possible motivation would they have, much less why would they have any contact outside of their local city or even district?

It would be like me going up to a fellow gamer at a convention and since we're both gamers asking them to pass on a message to someone I know that lives halfway around the world and expecting the message to magically get there. It's like playing six degrees to Kevin Bacon and expecting to be able to get a message to Mr Bacon by telling someone you know who might know someone who might know someone [repeat to get to 6 times].

I didn't ask any questions in the post you quoted, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

We take different approaches to the game. In world logic and cohesiveness matters to me more than it does to you.

No, I mean in any way whatsoever. I've seen no demonstration of an actual problem arising from actual gameplay.

Because you don't accept that the logical inconsistencies required matter to anyone else because it doesn't matter to you. I have no issue with you running your game differently, it's your insistence that anyone who doesn't agree with you is playing the game wrong.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

They play against the (mostly D&D) trope of the PCs being 'Man with No Name's, having no memory of or connection to their backgrounds. I.e. murder hobos. I'm not sure what value there is in the PCs not being able to find friends or allies when far from home. Even Clint Eastwood's Stranger character in A Fistful of Dollars was helped and hidden by the local coffinmaker, even though his home was someplace other than San Miguel.

Thank god he had the coffinmaker guild background. Otherwise he would have been short of luck.

The abilities are really not the problem. It is how they are written into the backgrounds.

If the adventure has a coffinmaker, I just want a line of text that reads: Because he knows how it is to be looked at by higher people, the coffinmaker is helpful towards adventurers with the following backgrounds: urchin, folk hero, criminal.

So now it is written in the right place. Right where the DM can see it whem they read the adventure.
Also in the DMG there can be general advice how to itilize each background when designing their adventure.

 

[mamba]

No, I mean in any way whatsoever. I've seen no demonstration of an actual problem arising from actual gameplay.

so basically apart from illogical, because that does not cause actual gameplay issues…

 

[Hriston]

...the features yoy have been discussing...?

No, the features I've been discussing, the 2014 features, don't do that.

If they are interpreted as hard moves that automatically work, irregardless of circumstances, thst creates weird and inexplicable situations.

I don't know why anybody would do that unless they were trying to prove a point on the Internet. As I said up-thread, gameplay assumes the required fictional positioning. Luckily the features mostly provide their own fictional positioning. If the details haven't been established, just ask the player and move on.

Hence why WotC has moved away from that language. Doesn't really change how they should play, though, from what was being done previously.

How what plays? They're not present in the UA sample backgrounds, so they can't play like anything.

 

[Parmandur]

How what plays? They're not present in the UA sample backgrounds, so they can't play like anything.

The UA Backgrounds specifically ask the player and DM to ask questions about how the PC's Background grounds them in the world: I fail to see how thisnis meaningfully any different to my experience since 2014, aside from streamlining some clunky languahe...which h they have done for the past half-decade of new releases, resulting in no actual difference at the table.

It really was the original assertion that the revisions were getting rid of or minimizing Backgrounds that was confusing...because Backgrounds are still there, and still seem to function the same as I've ever seen.

 

[Hriston]

We have been talking about the same two or three backgrounds for 20+ pages now, so take a wild guess....

How about this one as an example.... Criminal: "You have a reliable and trustworthy contact who acts as your liaison to a network of other criminals. You know how to get messages to and from your contact, even over great distances; specifically, you know the local messengers, corrupt caravan masters, and seedy sailors who can deliver messages for you."

And just for good measure one we did not discuss, because the scope is limited, Smuggler: "You are acquainted with a network of smugglers who are willing to help you out of tight situations. While in a particular town, city, or other similarly sized community (DM’s discretion), you and your companions can stay for free in safe houses. Safe houses provide a poor lifestyle. While staying at a safe house, you can choose to keep your presence (and that of your companions) a secret."

I don't see anything that grants you notoriety, and I don't see anything that grants you friends -- acquaintances yes, but not friends. Nor do I see anything that relies on you knowing someone or on them knowing you. I see some statements that you know certain people and how to do certain things. That doesn't need to be established in play because it's part of the character's background. It happened off-screen.