D&D General Do you want a 3D vtt?

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

I'm guessing that it you wanted to make it a priority, you could either:

a) move the router; or
b) run a cat 6 cable through the wall and down to where it needed to be to come out and plug into your router. You know, like a grown-up homeowner, and not a college student

In all seriousness, we play online with Zoom and FVTT running and everyone has multiple monitors so we are not playing with disembodied voices, but gaming with friends. It is the main social activity each of us participates in, in our lives. Which means most of my best friends live 3,000+ miles away. We want that to work - and work well.

So we each run a hard line to make sure it all works the very best that it can. We make it a priority.

There would be a small bit of latency added using a wireless connection over a wired router I suppose. Are you guys really noticing that much of a difference? Did you test this to make sure there is a noticeable difference? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[EthanSental]

I mix my sessions, with fantasy grounds 2d maps on my tv for a battle map with minis moving around, have my decades old chessex map I still use, also plenty of terrain pieces, did a few session of tabletop connect (Carl works at FG now) and Talespire as well. Basically mix it up for my creativity and to keep the players engaged.

 

[glass]

Lemme tell ya all about the microtransactions to purchase miniatures...

As a former WH40K addict, you ain't joking.

I think those are just called "transactions"; there hasn't been anything "micro" about them for decades!

Campaign management is also one of my requests. I'd love a world map and city maps you can pin locations to.

That interests me more than any VTT. Another thing that I have thought would be cool for online tools (and to be fair DDB may already do some or all of this) is creating not just individual characters but grouping them into a party. So the GM can give XP to the party and it is automatically distributed (or just click "Level Up" if using milestones). And similarly with loot, it goes into a central pot until people claim items - ideally with support for specifying who is carrying the unassigned party loot for encumbrance purposes.

Obviously, it would need to be optional, as a single party with consistent membership does not fit all playstyles, but it would be nice for those it does suit.

---

As for the actual poll: I voted "Maybe" but like a couple of other posters it was "maybe, leaning quite strongly towards no". I have so far avoided VTTs as not worth the hassle, and this is likely to be even more hassle (and costlier to). But keeping track of highly-3d fights (especially airborne or under water) is something that can be difficult even on a real tabletop, and might be something that the VVT can do that I cannot do ten times easier in Google Slides (unlike 2d battle maps). But for it to be worth it for that occasional use case, it would have to be very easy and very cheap, and it seems unlikely to be either of those things.

 

[Steel_Wind]

There would be a small bit of latency added using a wireless connection over a wired router I suppose. Are you guys really noticing that much of a difference? Did you test this to make sure there is a noticeable difference? I'm genuinely curious.

Not anymore, no. We've been doing exclusively online for quite a while - and it predates our use of Foundry by ~8 years. Our group's "hard line" rule was because of Skype video and we instituted it around ~2012? We've stuck with it ever since. When one of our group had his desktop go down or is joining via laptop from a hotel room and is on Wi-Fi it's still ok on a 50/50 basis (depends on the Hotel)- unless he is in the UK -- then it's instantly unplayable via Wi-Fi. Just one person causing video to span 10 time zones and then timing is very tight.
It's not just transatlantic though:

• 4 players in California + me in Toronto = ok if 1 Cali player is on Wi-Fi
• 4 players in Cali + 1 in Penticton B.C. + 1 in Toronto = same Wi-Fi player in Cali = LAG (again, D20Pro in 2019, pre-Foundry)

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Not anymore, no. We've been doing exclusively online for quite a while - and it predates our use of Foundry by ~8 years. Our group's "hard line" rule was because of Skype video and we instituted it around ~2012? We've stuck with it ever since. When one of our group had his desktop go down or is joining via laptop from a hotel room and is on Wi-Fi it's still ok on a 50/50 basis (depends on the Hotel)- unless he is in the UK -- then it's instantly unplayable via Wi-Fi. Just one person causing video to span 10 time zones and then timing is very tight.
It's not just transatlantic though,

• 4 players in California + me in Toronto = ok if 1 Cali player is on Wi-Fi
• 4 players in Cali + 1 in Penticton B.C. + 1 in Toronto = same Wi-Fi player in Cali = LAG (again, D20Pro in 2019, pre-Foundry)

Interesting. So usually the only advantage to ethernet over wireless in terms of latency is within your local network; in that 'ideal' environment, there are no other bottlenecks to contend with, so the latency advantage makes itself felt. Once you are sending and receiving traffic across the internet at large, the latency advantage that the tiny hop from your device to your router is generally overshadowed by the latency hits your traffic is taking as it navigates the routes to your destination. Unless the latency added by that wireless connection is unusually large...

The situation you're describing is a bit mysterious. All you did was add a wired connection (to Penticton)? And whether the player in California was on a wireless or wired connection, you noticed a slowdown? Or was it just if that Cali player was on a wireless network?

Re: hotel wifi. On a wireless network like that, you can run into bandwidth consumption issues (i.e. tons of guests are on Netflix, etc.). Your pipeline is full or near full, you now get additional latency issues as a result.

 

[Steel_Wind]

The situation you're describing is a bit mysterious. All you did was add a wired connection (to Penticton)? And whether the player in California was on a wireless or wired connection, you noticed a slowdown? Or was it just if that Cali player was on a wireless network?

Re: hotel wifi. On a wireless network like that, you can run into bandwidth consumption issues (i.e. tons of guests are on Netflix, etc.). Your pipeline is full or near full, you now get additional latency issues as a result.

Just Cali Wi-Fi (which was on Wi-Fi throughout and didn't change). What was okay initially with 5 people in the Skype call tipped over the edge when the 6th from Penticton B.C. (on a hard line) was added.

If we had been on Zoom it may well have been fine, but we were on Skype at the time. shrug In my experience, Skype starts to get laggy on the 6th person added to the call. At that point, every bit of extra latency matters.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Just Cali Wi-Fi (which was on Wi-Fi throughout and didn't change). What was okay initially with 5 people in the Skype call tipped over the edge when the 6th from Penticton B.C. (on a hard line) was added.

If we had been on Zoom it may well have been fine, but we were on Skype at the time. shrug In my experience, Skype starts to get laggy on the 6th person added to the call. At that point, every bit of extra latency matters.

True, could have been a software issue not something lower down the OSI stack.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

ok

what evidence do you have that this will be the case?

Exhibit A: Every other time money bros start talking about how a brand is under monetized. Talk like that doesn't lead to consumer friendly pricing. Sure, sometimes I'm wrong and EA releases a game that doesnt try and suck the customer dry every time they log on, but that's more the exception.

Every other microtransaction game slides pretty hard to whale/kraken hunting. Moreover, this will only normalize this type of spending for newer players. Mercer Effect 2.0. Moreover, unlike the other 2d VTT's, you're stuck using THEIR assets. So instead of creating your own art or finding an image online and plopping it into a template for free, you're now shelling out for every model, wall type, etc. They don't want to sell you a game. They want you laying out money constantly.

The 3D model raises the price and limits the ability for the user to create assets. It also means we're going to have a slower rollout of content. What's the old saying? Good, Fast and Cheap? Pick Two? I'm not expecting it to hit that. This might be good, but I am not expecting it to be fast or cheap.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding—you think that if you buy the 1dnd monster manual on dndbeyond, that will come with all the 3d models for the vtt? There won’t be any extra charge or bundle to get those models?

I m afraid you are going to be in for a disappointment if you think you're getting anywhere near that number of 3d creature models for the price of the monster manual. I would truly love to be wrong.

 

[Hussar]

I m afraid you are going to be in for a disappointment if you think you're getting anywhere near that number of 3d creature models for the price of the monster manual. I would truly love to be wrong.

Well we’ll see won’t we?

I’m pretty sure that yup when you buy the MM you are going to get a model for every monster.

Right now you get an original painting for almost every monster when you buy the book. I’m not sure but I imagine the price between an original artwork for a troll and a static 3d model of a troll isn’t all that different.

We get Monster Manuals with over a hundred original art pieces and no one bats an eye. But a model? Oh yeah they’re going to charge you for each one.

Never minding something like the DMG which comes with no models at all which people will buy.