D&D 5E Does “Whack-A-Mole” Healing really happen in games?

[Argyle King]

In the first case, if the PCs are high-level enough, dimension door or plane shift are probably more likely. But before that, keeping the tank alive through powerful healing tends to be a high priority in my experience. Intentional whack-a-mole healing would be impractically dangerous.

As for your closing questions, the answers are dependent on both the creature and the circumstance. But I don’t think it requires any great intelligence to finish off a foe, even if you can’t tell if they’re already dead or not.

To test that, I think about what a typical party of PCs would do if the roles were reversed. I think that, after the first battle in which a cleric keeps bringing their enemies back, they never take that chance again. But maybe my murderhobos are more murdery than others’?

I agree on the last thing you said. In a game where that were the tone set for how combat plays out, I would likely approach combat (overall) differently. I think that leads to a question of what I've seen others describe as "combat as war" versus "combat as sport."

Anecdotally, to touch upon the beginning of your statement:
IME, it's a surprise when an enemy can hit (and deal damage at all) to a high level tank. Against an enemy which is regularly doing so and dropping the tank, being in melee with said enemy is likely a bad idea.

 

[DND_Reborn]

It's worth noting "a few seconds," depending on whether you're using the typical meaning of the term (more than 1 but less than ~10) is generally less than a combat round (6 seconds), and certainly no more than two. Taking 4 rounds before you're fully recovered would be 24 seconds, well over what most people would think of as "a few seconds."

LOL it's a figure of speech...

The point is there are all sorts of ways to simulate this mechanically:
1. Use penalties that gradually are removed (the first system I presented)
2. Use an action-limit concept, where actions are restored (the second system)
3. Use a concentration mechanic (your head is finally clear) before you can act fully
4. Limit actions the first round to only Dash, Disengage, and Dodge to represent your focus on defense as you regain your feet
5. Impose a -4 penalty to all d20 rolls, reducing the penalty by 1 each round until it is gone (idea by @toucanbuzz)

Or any other number of options.

The point is "whack-a-mole" is because someone pops up from 0 HP to full action ability (ok, so you don't have full HP yet, but you can attack, make ability checks, defend yourself as if your HP were maxed out). Having PCs delayed in their choices for 1-4 rounds represents how it takes some time ("a few seconds") to get back into the game. You may still be a "mole" coming out of the ground, but you aren't "popping up" ready to go anymore.

FWIW, to me "a few seconds" is basically less than half a minute. If I am going to be more than half a minute, I usually say "in a minute (or two)" or something similar. YMMV of course.

 

[Zio_the_dark]

I answered "yes" but I think it really depends on the player's experience with the rules. When playing with beginners, they always feel in danger when their hp drop low and often heal before reaching 0 hp.

In my own games I use this house rule:

Wounds and Lingering injuries:
The character sheet has 5 checkboxes for wounds just like exhaustion
A character that suffers a critical hit or drops to 0 hp increases his wound level by 1. Any damage taken while being at 0 hp increases the wound level by 1.

Recovery:
Recovering hp does not reduce the wound level of a character, wounds only heal with time or powerful healing magic.
*Natural healing from 1 wound level takes a number of days equal to the current wound level while succeeding on a DC 12 Constitution saving throw or being tended by a character who succeeds on a DC 10 Wisdom (Medicine) check for each day of recovery. These checks are made during a long rest and with disadvantage if the conditions are not optimal (ie resting in wilderness or dungeon).
*Magical healing can restore wounds for healing spells of 5th level or higher at the rate of (spell level - 4) wound level per casting. If used in this way the spell has no other effects (for example a cure wounds spell cast with a 5th level slot will remove 1 wound level but won't heal hp).

Wounds effects:
*A character suffers a penalty to all rolls and checks equal to its current wound level (excepted death saving throws, maximum of -5).
*A character with a wound level greater than 3 can only regain up to half his maximum hit points during a long rest or with magical healing and must succeed on a DC 10 Constitution check to cast a spell without failing. He also suffers a -2 penalty to his speed.
*A character with a wound level greater than 5 drops to 0 hp and starts dying. He can't regain hp and may also suffer a lingering injury (DM choice). He stays unconscious if he's stabilized or succeeds his 3 death saving throws until he's able to recover from his wounds (ie having a wound level of 5 or less).

I know math and numbered penalty are avoided in 5th edition but this one is rather simple it's 1 for each box checked on the sheet.
Of course this rule is not for everyone as always, it increases downtime a bit if a character is severly wounded but for now my players don't dislike it (they like fantasy but they don't like things that look too unreal).

 

[DND_Reborn]

In my own games I use this house rule:

I've always liked rules such as these. My only suggestion would be instead of just 5 boxes, have it be 5 + CON mod. Otherwise, some things are a bit fiddly, but those are minor.

 

[Zio_the_dark]

I've always liked rules such as these. My only suggestion would be instead of just 5 boxes, have it be 5 + CON mod. Otherwise, some things are a bit fiddly, but those are minor.

Isn't 5 + CON mod a bit too much? A barbarian or fighter with 20 CON could stand being dropped 10 times to 0 hp before
I didn't thought of that but the CON modifier is already used for natural healing rate and concentration checks if seriously wounded.

For now my adventures have not gone for very long adventuring journeys so they rarely went more than 1 or 2 wound levels before being able to rest safely but in a long adventuring day without being able to rest properly it can be really dangerous for them.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Isn't 5 + CON mod a bit too much? A barbarian or fighter with 20 CON could stand being dropped 10 times to 0 hp before
I didn't thought of that but the CON modifier is already used for natural healing rate and concentration checks if seriously wounded.

It might be. You've been using the system so it only you would know.

I just suggested it because instead of "wound levels" we use the exhaustion mechanic, but you get "free" levels of exhaustion equal to your CON mod. So, with 5 levels (6th being dead) it made sense given your 5 boxes of wounds (as you said, similar to exhaustion).

A PC with CON 20 could would need to take 6 levels of exhaustion before feeling the penalty of disadvantage on ability checks because the first 5 "free" levels would have no impact mechanically.

Anyway, it just made sense to me that someone would a better CON could withstand more injury or wounds.

We have had PCs get as far as 7 levels of exhaustion (2 free) so on the brink of death, but typically 1-2 levels is more common, rarely 3, before rest becomes available.

FWIW, we also do the "you need X number of long rests where X equals your effective exhaustion level. free levels require 1 day each."

In the case of the PC at 7 levels (5 + 2 free) he would need 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 or 17 days to recover them all.

 

[Al2O3]

I can't find a way to vote on the phone app, but what we saw in my group:

We had a part of a campaign where the DM would only use deadly encounters. Quite quickly we ended up having whack-a-cleric, because with a Forge cleric, a Grave cleric, a rogue and a wizard we could not keep up with blows to the clerics/tanks in any other way than Healing Word at 0 hp. The DM got annoyed and wanted to introduce penalties for getting to zero hit points to make us heal earlier. However, we realised that there was nothing we could change on the PC side of encounters to reduce the whack-a-mole theme. Instead we changed the mix of encounters to 6-8 normal encounters with 2 short rests per adventuring day for a while, which was much more enjoyable.

Since it's ToA and we mostly changed random encounters this has not prevented 2 TPKs and more individual character deaths than I can remember. (To some extent the individual PCs have died because the player wanted to try something new.)

 

[Zio_the_dark]

I just suggested it because instead of "wound levels" we use the exhaustion mechanic, but you get "free" levels of exhaustion equal to your CON mod. So, with 5 levels (6th being dead) it made sense given your 5 boxes of wounds (as you said, similar to exhaustion).

It's right but higher CON also means higher HP so you aready have a greater margin before suffering a wound. You will also be more likely to heal faster naturally

 

[DND_Reborn]

It's right but higher CON also means higher HP so you aready have a greater margin before suffering a wound. You will also be more likely to heal faster naturally

Yeah, with our idea we stopped adding CON to HP to reduce HP bloat. Given the abstract nature of HP, it really no longer makes sense to include just CON mod to HP IMO.

I'd have to find the old set of houserules to remember exactly how it all worked.

Since you're still including CON in other facets, that's cool. The Wound Levels concept reminds me some of Vampire or Shadowrun's Condition Monitor. Either way, your ability to soak damage affected what sort of wound you might take--in D&D, that is the same sort of as adding CON to HP still.

Anyway, as I said you would know better, and at a glance it was the only big suggestion for you.

 

[Zio_the_dark]

Yeah, with our idea we stopped adding CON to HP to reduce HP bloat. Given the abstract nature of HP, it really no longer makes sense to include just CON mod to HP IMO.

I'd have to find the old set of houserules to remember exactly how it all worked.

Since you're still including CON in other facets, that's cool. The Wound Levels concept reminds me some of Vampire or Shadowrun's Condition Monitor. Either way, your ability to soak damage affected what sort of wound you might take--in D&D, that is the same sort of as adding CON to HP still.

Anyway, as I said you would know better, and at a glance it was the only big suggestion for you.

No problem I always like suggestions ^^ .
It's true I forget to add we use this kind of variant too... You start with more hp at 1st level (HD value + CON score) but you don't add the modifier after each new level. It reduce hp bloat at higher levels (barbarian with 20 con at level 20 is 235 hp RAW, with this variant is only 155) and increase the journey length at lower levels as the adventurer are more willingly pushing forward having a bit more hp.