D&D 5E Does anyone else find Nova-ing is not a problem in 5e?

[S'mon]

I guess obviously if the encounters are all 5e DMG "medium" or "hard" or
low-end "deadly" and the PCs get to go all out on each one, the game will be easy.

In 3e/PF, IME Nova tactics for casters can be so overwhelming as to trivialise any conceivable encounter and efectively 'break' the game. But I've not seen any problem with nova tactics in my 5e games. They play a lot like 0e-2e, or even 4e. Spellcasters can use their highest level powers (eg my Sunday group has a Wiz-12/Rog-1 and a Druid-14) without trivialising battles or in any way breaking the game. Sometimes they even lose & have to retreat, with Dimension Door, Wall of Stone etc to help them get away.

Does anyone else have this experience, or am I alone? Because it seems like a lot of the angst about the "5 minute adventuring day", "Policing the adventuring day" to force multiple encounters, et al
seems a bit misplaced. I've just not been seeing issues with the nova-capable classes. The only
possible issue is that short-rest, non-nova-capable classes may look weak by comparison. And shifting them to more of a long rest dependent, nova-capable design fixes that.

Or do GMs just love forcing resource management on the PCs? I think there's a place for that, but 5e has tons of spells like Leomund's Tiny Hut that make this hard to accomplish. Whereas balancing around "every fight is potentially risky, even at full power" doesn't really seem to be hard at all.

 

[balzebub]

Nah nova builds isn't a problem in 5e, just too few spell slots available for use. Spells also no longer scale as efficiently. If played without home brew it is pretty hard to break the game

Sent from my MI 6 using Tapatalk

 

[CapnZapp]

I might be misinterpreting you, but you use the term "nova tactics" which to me implies a 5 minute workday. Your actual post, however, suggests what you really want to discuss is the overpoweredness of high level spells (or lack thereof).

While the former topic is still an issue, the quadratic wizards are very much brought back in line, at least compared to previous editions.

This isn't just because the individual spells aren't nearly as easy to abuse, or that you get fewer high level slots. It's also because the whole buffing game has been effectively removed (mainly through the Concentration mechanic).

So I'd say you're chiefly on the right track. As long as you have multiple enemies in 5E, there really are very few ways to press an "I win" button.

 

[FrogReaver]

A party in 5th edition cannot trivialize any encounter they want even with a 5 minute workday. However, a 5 minute workday does cause the characters that get fewer daily resources to be much less impactful. It also frees up wizards to be kings of nearly every pillar of the game.

It's that in party debalancing that makes the 5 minute workday bad. (Or maybe great if you are the wizard...)

 

[MarkB]

I think it's the faster pace of combats that limits powerful ability spamming as much as those abilities being less impactful. When a typical combat is resolved in 2-3 rounds, there simply isn't enough opportunity for the party to unload all their big guns in one encounter.

 

[Mephista]

I think you're looking at the wrong classes that "nova." Spellcasters have very few ways to improve their damage output beyond casting Fireball (or whatever) at a higher spell slot level. Its a big deal when you can just add your INT, WIS or CHA to the damage spell!

Nova classes are more like the Battlemaster, the Paladin and the Berserker. Massive damage output in a very short time on a single target. Casters tend to be more oriented towards killing off small fry mooks in large amounts rather than single target damage. Magic items tend to buff the melee warrior damage, while casters effectively get more spells / day usually (or, in one case, better accuracy).

 

[jaelis]

I've haven't had a problem with 'nova' issues.

 

[jayoungr]

It's the Battlemaster that I worry about in my group, not the casters. She took an adult dragon to half-hitpoints on a single attack once (she was level 13-14 at the time and had a dragonslaying weapon).

 

[S'mon]

I might be misinterpreting you, but you use the term "nova tactics" which to me implies a 5 minute workday.

I'm talking about PCs frequently using all available resources in a single battle. Nova tactics. Might be part of a long adventuring day, but not in the sense of umpteen battles.

 

[S'mon]

Nova classes are more like the Battlemaster, the Paladin and the Berserker. Massive damage output in a very short time on a single target. Casters tend to be more oriented towards killing off small fry mooks in large amounts rather than single target damage. Magic items tend to buff the melee warrior damage, while casters effectively get more spells / day usually (or, in one case, better accuracy).

I've not seen a problem with these classes. The Battlemaster I played seemed weak. Paladin does great single target damage but weak vs groups, the inverse of the Wizard - together the two seem balanced. Berserker Barbarian takes 2 rounds to get going (r1 Rage r2 Berserk bonus attack) and lower spike
damage than Paladin, but very durable over a typical 8-round "big fight" encounter, where Paladin will quickly run low on spell slots.

Overall it seems to me that the Paladin, Barbarian, Wizard, Cleric, Druid etc all do comparably well in a "Spike Encounter" type situation, that they are powerful but cannot trivialise it.