Does Expertise Stack with Fighting Defensively?

[doktorstick]

Does expertise stack with fighting defensively? In another thread, I noticed it being used together. However, I'm not sure that is correct. Under the "Normal" section of Expertise, it states:

A character not capable of the Expertise feat can fight defensively while using the attack or full attack action to take a -4 penalty on attacks and gain a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class.

With a Tumble (5 ranks), this becomes -4 attack +3 AC. It isn't clear Expertise is worth it if you can take a rogue for a level (after level 2) to get the 5 ranks as a class skill. This presumes you are not going for TWA.

As an aside, are there any other feats that rely on Expertise that are worth a dang outside of the core rules?

Thanks.
/ds

 

[Crothian]

Yes, it does. The AC bonus, and the negative to hit.

 

[doktorstick]

I appreciate your reply, Crothian, but could you give more of a reason as to why this is possible? To me, it seems as if the "Normal" section is saying that you are limited in your bonus/penalty (-4 attack +2 AC) unless you take Expertise, which gives you the flexibility of a 1:1 ratio at your choice.

/ds

 

[Crothian]

The normal section is just telling you what option you have without this feat. With this feat you can also fight defensively.

 

[JavaBomberman]

I believe that Expertise does not stack with fighting defensively. In my opinion, expertise is just a feat that replaces fighting defensively. The normal section of most feats tells what you can do if you didn't have the feat, and the feat replaces whatever the statement was in that normal section.

and expertise is a prerequisite for some pretty good feats, like whirlwind attack for example.

 

[Crothian]

Well, I don't know if its in the FAQ, but the Sage has said specifically (and it might have vbeen in a Dragon) that they do.

 

[doktorstick]

Well, I don't know if its in the FAQ, but the Sage has said specifically (and it might have vbeen in a Dragon) that they do.

Let the reference search begin! I'll go search the FAQ.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

FAQ, pages 16 and 17.

You can combine Expertise and Fighting Defensively, but not Total Defense.

 

[Crothian]

FAQ, pages 16 and 17.

You can combine Expertise and Fighting Defensively, but not Total Defense.

Thank you Dr Zoom

 

[doktorstick]

Thanks everyone. I never even started the download.