MerakSpielman
First Post
It's easier to teach to newbies, IMHO.
Down with the negativity! Tell me what you like about 3E.
- Thread starter Blue Sky
- Start date
I like it that the CR system removes the guess work from creating a challenging adventure for PC's.
I like it that the DM also gets a point of reference in terms of how much XP and treasure to give out to characters as they advance through the levels. they no longer have to walk the line between monty haul and cheap skate all on his/her own.
I like it that the 3e rules removed the feeling that the PCs were being punished for adventuring. Random stat draining events are now temporary, a lot of things now cost XP instead of stat points (for example casting permanency and raise dead and other spells) or years of your characters life (haste).
I like it that monks and barbarians were brought back.
I like it that dwarves are the new elf, and that elves are the weaklings that dwarves always new them to be (though I grudgingly admit elves can be good in their own way).
I like it that gnomes rock.
I like it that classes and races are ballanced through the course of their careers and there is no more reliance on racial level limits (if you ever reach them) or XP progression to convince people that a human fighter remains a viable choice rules wise.
I like it that you start at first level with armour, a weapon and potnetially a number of spells up your sleeve rather than starting with rags, a stick and an aspiration to cast magic one day.
Uh, I like all the stuff that everyone else also pointed out too.
I like it that the DM also gets a point of reference in terms of how much XP and treasure to give out to characters as they advance through the levels. they no longer have to walk the line between monty haul and cheap skate all on his/her own.
I like it that the 3e rules removed the feeling that the PCs were being punished for adventuring. Random stat draining events are now temporary, a lot of things now cost XP instead of stat points (for example casting permanency and raise dead and other spells) or years of your characters life (haste).
I like it that monks and barbarians were brought back.
I like it that dwarves are the new elf, and that elves are the weaklings that dwarves always new them to be (though I grudgingly admit elves can be good in their own way).
I like it that gnomes rock.
I like it that classes and races are ballanced through the course of their careers and there is no more reliance on racial level limits (if you ever reach them) or XP progression to convince people that a human fighter remains a viable choice rules wise.
I like it that you start at first level with armour, a weapon and potnetially a number of spells up your sleeve rather than starting with rags, a stick and an aspiration to cast magic one day.
Uh, I like all the stuff that everyone else also pointed out too.
wingsandsword
Legend
No more THAC0!
A Skill system that is much more flexible and useful than old NWP's.
Reasonable multiclassing
Feats that mean that 2 20th level fighters are more than carbon copies of each other with different ability scores and hit-die rolls.
Simple Weapon Proficiency and Martial Weapons Proficiency, instead of just knowing 2 or 3 weapons, PC's actually can use the weapons they find.
No lame ability score requirements for classes (like needing that 17 Cha for Paladin)
All core classes go to 20th level (monks don't stop in their teens "just because").
No dueling for higher levels with Monks and Druids.
Sneak Attack replaced Backstab.
Thief Skills were moved into the main body of skills, so you don't have to be a Rogue to be able to pick a lock or move silently.
No arbitrary Druidic heirarchy (why in the world is there only one 15th level Druid in the world?)
No more Racial Level Limits!
No more nonsensical Racial class restrictions: Elves with their love of nature couldn't be druids, but their half-elven children could? Dwarves are great with magical scripts but they couldn't even enchant their own magic swords or armor (no Wizards and Clerics were limited to 10th level when you had to be 11th to do so)?
8th and 9th level Cleric/Druid spells.
The game is presumed to be a fantasy world, instead of a medieval setting with magic bolted on.
Sensible magic item creation rules: no more permanently losing CON to make items.
Prestige Classes replaced Kits
Psionics that really work (in 3.5)!
ECL/LA provides a fair way of dealing with higher-powered races and creatures.
Full monster stat blocks.
NPC classes instead of the vague and poor "0 Level" rules.
Saving Throws vs. Energy Drain. Undead aren't unfair level-eaters anymore.
3 Types of Saves, and they are consistent.
Hit Dice above around 10th level.
Uniform ability score modifiers.
Point Buy Ability Scores.
SRD & OGL, letting fans have free electronic copies of the rules while supporting a fan and commercial culture of 3rd party works.
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (the best single volume campaign setting WotC/TSR's ever done IMO)
CR System makes calculating XP and challenges much easier.
A fair baseline in the DMG for power levels and equipping PC's above 1st level.
Humans are worth playing in low-level games.
No more random starting spells for Wizards and Bards.
Sorcerers: Not widely used in many games but good as examples of another way to do magic.
A Skill system that is much more flexible and useful than old NWP's.
Reasonable multiclassing
Feats that mean that 2 20th level fighters are more than carbon copies of each other with different ability scores and hit-die rolls.
Simple Weapon Proficiency and Martial Weapons Proficiency, instead of just knowing 2 or 3 weapons, PC's actually can use the weapons they find.
No lame ability score requirements for classes (like needing that 17 Cha for Paladin)
All core classes go to 20th level (monks don't stop in their teens "just because").
No dueling for higher levels with Monks and Druids.
Sneak Attack replaced Backstab.
Thief Skills were moved into the main body of skills, so you don't have to be a Rogue to be able to pick a lock or move silently.
No arbitrary Druidic heirarchy (why in the world is there only one 15th level Druid in the world?)
No more Racial Level Limits!
No more nonsensical Racial class restrictions: Elves with their love of nature couldn't be druids, but their half-elven children could? Dwarves are great with magical scripts but they couldn't even enchant their own magic swords or armor (no Wizards and Clerics were limited to 10th level when you had to be 11th to do so)?
8th and 9th level Cleric/Druid spells.
The game is presumed to be a fantasy world, instead of a medieval setting with magic bolted on.
Sensible magic item creation rules: no more permanently losing CON to make items.
Prestige Classes replaced Kits
Psionics that really work (in 3.5)!
ECL/LA provides a fair way of dealing with higher-powered races and creatures.
Full monster stat blocks.
NPC classes instead of the vague and poor "0 Level" rules.
Saving Throws vs. Energy Drain. Undead aren't unfair level-eaters anymore.
3 Types of Saves, and they are consistent.
Hit Dice above around 10th level.
Uniform ability score modifiers.
Point Buy Ability Scores.
SRD & OGL, letting fans have free electronic copies of the rules while supporting a fan and commercial culture of 3rd party works.
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (the best single volume campaign setting WotC/TSR's ever done IMO)
CR System makes calculating XP and challenges much easier.
A fair baseline in the DMG for power levels and equipping PC's above 1st level.
Humans are worth playing in low-level games.
No more random starting spells for Wizards and Bards.
Sorcerers: Not widely used in many games but good as examples of another way to do magic.
Ron
Explorer
Inovations:
No THACO,
AC goes up,
More is better all times,
No racial limits,
Less limitations to multiclassing (although I think it became too easy),
A better Ranger (3.5 only and still lacking something from 1st ed. AD&D),
A much better fighter,
Integration of thieves' skills and non-weapon proficiencies,
Int bonus spells to Wizards, and
Something useful to do with Charisma.
The best from earlier editions:
Unified ability bonuses (from BD&D),
Half-Orcs (from 1st ed AD&D),
Assassins (from 1st ed AD&D), and
Extensive use of colour (from 2nd ed AD&D).
No THACO,
AC goes up,
More is better all times,
No racial limits,
Less limitations to multiclassing (although I think it became too easy),
A better Ranger (3.5 only and still lacking something from 1st ed. AD&D),
A much better fighter,
Integration of thieves' skills and non-weapon proficiencies,
Int bonus spells to Wizards, and
Something useful to do with Charisma.
The best from earlier editions:
Unified ability bonuses (from BD&D),
Half-Orcs (from 1st ed AD&D),
Assassins (from 1st ed AD&D), and
Extensive use of colour (from 2nd ed AD&D).
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cybertalus
First Post
I like almost everything about 3rd Edition.
My favoritest thing though is that any race can now be a member of any class. This is the change that made me give 3E a closer look and ultimately brought me back to the game.
After that I like that wizards are now playable and fun at low levels, and fighters are now playable and fun at high levels. I like that crossbows are weapons actually worth using and that nearly everyone can use them. I like that characters are proficient with a wide range of weapons, not just a select few.
I like that there seem to be a lot more players around than there were in the 2nd Edition years.
My favoritest thing though is that any race can now be a member of any class. This is the change that made me give 3E a closer look and ultimately brought me back to the game.
After that I like that wizards are now playable and fun at low levels, and fighters are now playable and fun at high levels. I like that crossbows are weapons actually worth using and that nearly everyone can use them. I like that characters are proficient with a wide range of weapons, not just a select few.
I like that there seem to be a lot more players around than there were in the 2nd Edition years.
Christopher Lambert
First Post
Mostly covered above...
I like how 3.5 psionics isn't broken out of the box and is actually playble with minimal house rules, without being pathetically weak or so overpowered it boggles the mind.
The skills, feats and ability score system convinced me to play 3e (as opposed to 2e's version, which drove me to playing Alternity, still a very fun system in it's own right).
The rules are, for the most part, consistent. Surprise rules actually work (I hated how 2e how two totally separate surprise systems - what about elven thieves?).
CR system. Wealth per level system (although the amount of assumed treasure is way too high, IMO).
You can actually craft cool magic items, since there are rules for that.
Level adjustment... yes I know it's not perfectly balanced, but at least now I can play a thri-kreen (with an understanding DM) who won't think I'm being a munchkin.
I hated 2e's saving throw system, (N)WPs, lack of balance, XP values all over the place, and turn undead (which, alas, didn't get changed for 3e). Oh yeah, and a profusion of frequently broken kits... oh wait, that didn't really go away, did it?
I like how 3.5 psionics isn't broken out of the box and is actually playble with minimal house rules, without being pathetically weak or so overpowered it boggles the mind.
The skills, feats and ability score system convinced me to play 3e (as opposed to 2e's version, which drove me to playing Alternity, still a very fun system in it's own right).
The rules are, for the most part, consistent. Surprise rules actually work (I hated how 2e how two totally separate surprise systems - what about elven thieves?).
CR system. Wealth per level system (although the amount of assumed treasure is way too high, IMO).
You can actually craft cool magic items, since there are rules for that.
Level adjustment... yes I know it's not perfectly balanced, but at least now I can play a thri-kreen (with an understanding DM) who won't think I'm being a munchkin.
I hated 2e's saving throw system, (N)WPs, lack of balance, XP values all over the place, and turn undead (which, alas, didn't get changed for 3e). Oh yeah, and a profusion of frequently broken kits... oh wait, that didn't really go away, did it?
Last edited:
Orius
Unrepentant DM Supremacist
Consistant stat bonuses.
Streamlined saves that are more logically applied.
Attack bonus replacing THAC0 (but come on guys, let's face it, THAC0 itself was way better than pages of attack matrices).
Removal of racial restrictions on classes.
Removal of ability score requirements for classes.
Removal of level limits.
Letting players play characters they want to play without shackling them to race/class combinations dictated by random dice rolls.
A multi-classing system that actually makes sense.
A much-improved skill system.
Only one spell description regardless of how many classes use the same spell, and spell descriptions that are streamlined.
A system that makes some attempt towards internal consistancy.
Giving DMs some rules of thumb regarding how powerful monsters and magic items are, making preparation less dependant on guesswork.
The overall assumption that magic is somewhat common in the world, rather than arbitrarily stating that low magic is good, yet filling modules up with lots of magical loot.
Streamlined saves that are more logically applied.
Attack bonus replacing THAC0 (but come on guys, let's face it, THAC0 itself was way better than pages of attack matrices).
Removal of racial restrictions on classes.
Removal of ability score requirements for classes.
Removal of level limits.
Letting players play characters they want to play without shackling them to race/class combinations dictated by random dice rolls.
A multi-classing system that actually makes sense.
A much-improved skill system.
Only one spell description regardless of how many classes use the same spell, and spell descriptions that are streamlined.
A system that makes some attempt towards internal consistancy.
Giving DMs some rules of thumb regarding how powerful monsters and magic items are, making preparation less dependant on guesswork.
The overall assumption that magic is somewhat common in the world, rather than arbitrarily stating that low magic is good, yet filling modules up with lots of magical loot.
Last edited:
Off the top of my head, I like the following:
1. The core d20 mechanic
2. attributes and bonus progression are consistant and are awarded earlier
3. the skill system
4. spot/listen vs. hide/move silent is consistant with the skill system and makes sense.
5. the addition or the sorceror
6. variant classes as per character customization in the phb (basically 2e kits) done right).
7. The removal of THACO for something more intuitive
8. 3 saving throws categories
9. Monsters have stats and bonuses
10.AC for monsters is broken down into dex bonus, natural armor, etc.
11. The SRD
12. Unearthed Arcana
1. The core d20 mechanic
2. attributes and bonus progression are consistant and are awarded earlier
3. the skill system
4. spot/listen vs. hide/move silent is consistant with the skill system and makes sense.
5. the addition or the sorceror
6. variant classes as per character customization in the phb (basically 2e kits) done right).
7. The removal of THACO for something more intuitive
8. 3 saving throws categories
9. Monsters have stats and bonuses
10.AC for monsters is broken down into dex bonus, natural armor, etc.
11. The SRD
12. Unearthed Arcana
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