Dr Strange 2: In the Multiverse of Madness (Spoilers)

I loved this movie. Compare the magic in this with the first Doctor Strange movie and it's like we graduated from youth sports to the big leagues. Everything was weird and dark and so much fun. Wanda taking on the Illuminati and mopping the floor with them was my favorite scene. My favorite aspect of the movie was watching Olsen go full nightmare evil villain. She nailed it. Strange has also done a lot of growing in his last couple appearances and I'm happy with where their going with it.

I didn't really have much in the way of expectations for this film. It seems like everyone's doing their own thing with one or two other folks in the MCU these days. Not really building quickly to any Avengers level stuff. I think I'm fine with that for now, especially if they keep giving us movies like this. But at some point we'll need to see everyone coming together again.
 

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Nikosandros

Golden Procrastinator
Wong
Who doesn't love Wong! My only issue with Wong in this movie was when he gave in to Wanda when she was torturing his people and gave her the secret to ultimate power. I'm sorry, but this is the same Wong that had just thrown an army of people to fight her, and was willing to die himself. This was the Wong that ultimately told Strange to "take the girl's power...which would kill her" to stop Wanda. I expect Wong to spit in her face and be ready to die, only for Wanda to rip it from his mind. Not for Wong to feebily just give in....it was the one scene that really did not work for me in character.
pad.
I've liked the movie a lot, but I agree that this scene was really jarring for me. I've tried to rationalize it by thinking that Wong was sure that the demons (or whatever they were) protecting Mount Wundagore would destroy any interlopers.
 

pukunui

Legend
I also like how Strange made a 1960s reference when he was first introduced to Mr. Fantastic, which lends credence to the idea the eventual MCU Fantastic Four movies will be set in the 1960s, which handily explains why they haven't been around in the MCU thus far.
I thought that was just Dr Strange conflating the Fantastic Four with the Fab Four.


Overall, I think I enjoyed the movie for what it was, but it wasn't really what I was expecting. For one thing, I was expecting it to draw on the events of Loki but it doesn't. Granted, hardly anyone anywhere in the multiverse other than two specific Lokis (well, a Loki and a Sylvie) actually know what is going on, but I just thought the splitting of the "sacred timeline" was meant to be what caused the opening of the multiverse, but this movie made it seem like the multiverse had always been there, full of variants.

I'm also not 100% sure I like the direction they took Wanda in. Yes, the Darkhold was going to make her go bad, and she became fixated on trying to reunite with her children ... but if she created them using magic, how can there still be versions of her where she's seemingly living a happy, normal suburban life with them (and, apparently, without Vision)?

Also, I feel like there's a bit of sexism in how the Darkhold makes traumatized Wanda go out of control evil but Dr Strange, who is repeatedly criticized for being arrogant and controlling and is repeatedly warned about the dangers of using the Darkhold, gets away with it. Wong even says "I don't want to know" when he sees Strange using the Darkhold to puppet a zombie version of himself.

Yes, Wanda points out this double standard herself early in the film, but the filmmakers then proceed to let Strange continue to break the rules and remain a hero while Wanda ends up having to make the ultimate sacrifice in order to make up for he villainry. (Yes, I know, the Darkhold has had some kind of effect on Strange, now that he's got his own third eye, but the implications of that won't be revealed until some future film.)

I presume our Wanda is now dead, and if she appears again in any future shows or movies, it'll be a variant Wanda. If so, this is a bit disappointing, because I was looking forward to seeing our Wanda reunite with Vision (and the boys). It would be nice for Wanda to get a real happy ending after everything she's been through.

All that said, Elizabeth Olsen really nailed villainous Wanda.



I also felt like introducing a bunch of new characters and variants of existing characters (as the Illuminati) only to kill them off moments later was a bit strange. Will we now see another variant of Professor X and/or Reed Richards in a future MCU product?

In the Star Wars sequels, Luke Skywalker quips that "No one's ever really gone." The MCU multiverse puts a whole new spin on that. The death of a beloved character no longer carries as much meaning. We've already got a new Loki and a new Gamorra. Who's next? Will they bring back Tony or Nat?


Another thought: All the Dr Stranges we saw in this film looked like Benedict Cumberbatch. Likewise, all the Wandas looked like Elizabeth Olsen. But all the Peter Parkers we got in the last Spider Man film looked completely different. How common is that, or will they just handwave it away because they wanted to bring back the other actors who played Parker?
 
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I thought that was just Dr Strange conflating the Fantastic Four with the Fab Four.


Overall, I think I enjoyed the movie for what it was, but it wasn't really what I was expecting. For one thing, I was expecting it to draw on the events of Loki but it doesn't. Granted, hardly anyone anywhere in the multiverse other than two specific Lokis (well, a Loki and a Sylvie) actually know what is going on, but I just thought the splitting of the "sacred timeline" was meant to be what caused the opening of the multiverse, but this movie made it seem like the multiverse had always been there, full of variants.

I'm also not 100% sure I like the direction they took Wanda in. Yes, the Darkhold was going to make her go bad, and she became fixated on trying to reunite with her children ... but if she created them using magic, how can there still be versions of her where she's seemingly living a happy, normal suburban life with them (and, apparently, without Vision)?

Also, I feel like there's a bit of sexism in how the Darkhold makes traumatized Wanda go out of control evil but Dr Strange, who is repeatedly criticized for being arrogant and controlling and is repeatedly warned about the dangers of using the Darkhold, gets away with it. Wong even says "I don't want to know" when he sees Strange using the Darkhold to puppet a zombie version of himself.

Yes, Wanda points out this double standard herself early in the film, but the filmmakers then proceed to let Strange continue to break the rules and remain a hero while Wanda ends up having to make the ultimate sacrifice in order to make up for he villainry. (Yes, I know, the Darkhold has had some kind of effect on Strange, now that he's got his own third eye, but the implications of that won't be revealed until some future film.)

I presume our Wanda is now dead, and if she appears again in any future shows or movies, it'll be a variant Wanda. If so, this is a bit disappointing, because I was looking forward to seeing our Wanda reunite with Vision (and the boys). It would be nice for Wanda to get a real happy ending after everything she's been through.

All that said, Elizabeth Olsen really nailed villainous Wanda.



I also felt like introducing a bunch of new characters and variants of existing characters (as the Illuminati) only to kill them off moments later was a bit strange. Will we now see another variant of Professor X and/or Reed Richards in a future MCU product?

In the Star Wars sequels, Luke Skywalker quips that "No one's ever really gone." The MCU multiverse puts a whole new spin on that. The death of a beloved character no longer carries as much meaning. We've already got a new Loki and a new Gamorra. Who's next? Will they bring back Tony or Nat?


Another thought: All the Dr Stranges we saw in this film looked like Benedict Cumberbatch. Likewise, all the Wandas looked like Elizabeth Olsen. But all the Peter Parkers we got in the last Spider Man film looked completely different. How common is that, or will they just handwave it away because they wanted to bring back the other actors who played Parker?
Specifically talking about the darkhold and it's effect(s) on Strange in comparison to Wanda we got four Dr. Stranges in this film. Each one of the non-616 Stranges gives 616 Strange a different look at what happens when dealing with the Darkhold. He can go without it and feels forced to act for "the greater good" and dies after betraying someone who thought they were friends, use it and realize he's going bad and asks to get vocalized into nothingness, or use it and eventually destroy so much because he's looking for happiness in the wrong way. Each one of these examples occurs before he uses the Darkhold, giving him a much better idea of what he's getting into.

Wanda didn't have any of this. She got the Darkhold right after a traumatizing period and then spent potentially years alone with it. We see how much it has warped her over that time during the grove scene going from thriving to barren and foreboding. Just very different circumstances for the characters and imo not sexism.
 

Eric V

Hero
Wanda didn't have any of this. She got the Darkhold right after a traumatizing period and then spent potentially years alone with it. We see how much it has warped her over that time during the grove scene going from thriving to barren and foreboding. Just very different circumstances for the characters and imo not sexism.
Well, if the Darkhold were a real thing and this was objectively how it worked, but it's not...it's a decision made by human beings making the movie and they decided to make the female character get overwhelmed and become the obsessed mom whilst having the arrogant doctor work with it just fine. The optics aren't great.
 

Richards

Legend
I thought that was just Dr Strange conflating the Fantastic Four with the Fab Four.
Ah - I hadn't made that connection. I was just recalling something I had read about the MCU FF movie being possibly set in the 1960s...and in doing a little searching, I found the article - but it's just supposition.

CBR Link

Johnathan
 

Well, if the Darkhold were a real thing and this was objectively how it worked, but it's not...it's a decision made by human beings making the movie and they decided to make the female character get overwhelmed and become the obsessed mom whilst having the arrogant doctor work with it just fine. The optics aren't great.
They also showed a version of Strange that was so overwhelmed by the Darkhold that he destroyed his world and killed numerous other Stranges. So you have a male and female character both being overwhelmed for the exact same reason: wanting a person(s) to love and make them happy that they couldn't have. Then you have 616 Strange use the Darkhold for a comparatively brief time compared to the others, get a weird third eye from it, and also gets told by Charlize Theron that he caused an incursion and needs to fix it. We saw how bad incursions can be so to say that it worked fine isn't true. He is going to have to pay a price for using it just like Wanda and other Strange paid a price.
 

pukunui

Legend
Google it. I'm hardly the only one to notice the sexist overtones. People are saying it's a classic example of "female too powerful for her own good". People are also complaining that they Disneyfied America by making her a wide-eyed, helpless kid who doesn't know how to use her powers until the male hero gives her a pep talk.

Sam Raimi has also admitted to not having watched all of WandaVision.


Wanda killed herself in the end (theoretically). Strange has got a weird third eye and another problem he needs to fix. Big difference. Oh, and he is now humble enough to bow to Wong. Big character development there!
 

Stalker0

Legend
Well, if the Darkhold were a real thing and this was objectively how it worked, but it's not...it's a decision made by human beings making the movie and they decided to make the female character get overwhelmed and become the obsessed mom whilst having the arrogant doctor work with it just fine. The optics aren't great.
Wanda was going bad before the dark hold, she is a VILLAIN in wandavision, she tortures an innocent town, shows no remorse for it, and then walks alway. While Agatha was no peach, Wanda enslaved her that reality for potentially forever, a fate thst the people of the town said was worse than death.

The darkhold might have pushed Wanda farther down the path, but she was already quite villainous before this movie started. In contrast strange had plenty of warning about the darkhold, begrudgingly used its power for a brief time…and it still appears he might have been tainted by its use. So it’s not like strange is getting out of jail free here
 

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