Dungeon Delver and Blindsight Revisited

[mmu1]

MD - Don't recall the description of it word for word, but I believe it specifically mentions that it's not negated by silence.

So... Any ideas or suggestions on whether the ability is useable at will or a limited number of times per day, since the official errata and FAQ don't mention it (which is why I posted the topic to begin with)?

 

[spunky_mutters]

Well, with no official response (and based on the 10 min. limit it looks like they intended it to be x/day), I'd make it 1/DD level, or less.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Dungeon Delver Revisited

MD - Don't recall the description of it word for word, but I believe it specifically mentions that it's not negated by silence.

Correct. It relies on far more than just sound. Sound is only one of many senses that the Dungeon Delver's blindsight uses.

So... Any ideas or suggestions on whether the ability is useable at will or a limited number of times per day, since the official errata and FAQ don't mention it (which is why I posted the topic to beging with)?

By a strict reading, I'd say once per day, but that would be pretty useless, given the concept of the prestige class. On the other hand, at will would be awfully powerful. I'd probably just rule one use per day for every three class levels. Then again, I think that really mucks up the concept. Bah.

 

[Maitre Du Donjon]

Re: Re: Dungeon Delver Revisited

Correct. It relies on far more than just sound. Sound is only one of many senses that the Dungeon Delver's blindsight uses.



By a strict reading, I'd say once per day, but that would be pretty useless, given the concept of the prestige class. On the other hand, at will would be awfully powerful. I'd probably just rule one use per day for every three class levels. Then again, I think that really mucks up the concept. Bah.

First Subject: I guess my question was such: the Blindsight description suggests that there are many ways for Blindsight to work. Are ALL these ways of working active at the same time? I mean, lets take "Echolocation" and "Acute Smell". You probably won't be able to Echolocate (pardon the neologism) a green cloud of smelly, smelly gas, but you sure as heck won't miss it with your newly hyper-sensitive nose.

Maybe its moot, in the sense that the Blindsight description was mostly flavour text, and it's basically saying "A creature with blindisght is aware of everything near him, apart from ethereal creatures"?

For the duration, couldn't it be possible that the Dungeon Delver can use the ability 10 minutes per day, but he can split the duration between many uses? A couple of rounds here, a minute or so there, etc...

Maitre D

 

[NPC]

Re: Re: Re: Dungeon Delver Revisited

. . . Maybe its moot, in the sense that the Blindsight description was mostly flavour text, and it's basically saying "A creature with blindisght is aware of everything near him, apart from ethereal creatures"?

Maitre D

That's the way I look at it. Sometimes I find it's better to say, "it's magic" and leave the explanation at that.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Dungeon Delver Revisited

First Subject: I guess my question was such: the Blindsight description suggests that there are many ways for Blindsight to work. Are ALL these ways of working active at the same time?

I've never seen any indication that they do not.

Maybe its moot, in the sense that the Blindsight description was mostly flavour text, and it's basically saying "A creature with blindisght is aware of everything near him, apart from ethereal creatures"?

Definately.

For the duration, couldn't it be possible that the Dungeon Delver can use the ability 10 minutes per day, but he can split the duration between many uses? A couple of rounds here, a minute or so there, etc...

I'd be inclined to say "not likely". I draw that conclusion from other similar abilities of other creatures. The fire genasi and air genasi can control flame and levitate for a limited duration once per day, but they can't split this duration up. The air genasi actually has to take a feat to allow that.

By the same token, it probably wouldn't be a big deal if you allowed it.

 

[Camarath]

Re: Re: Dungeon Delver Revisited

By a strict reading, I'd say once per day, but that would be pretty useless, given the concept of the prestige class. On the other hand, at will would be awfully powerful. I'd probably just rule one use per day for every three class levels. Then again, I think that really mucks up the concept. Bah.

IMO precedence goes to Ring of Spell Turning and other abilities and items which do not have a listed use per day that we know can be use an unlimited number of times per day.

Form SDR
Spell Turning
On command, this band automatically reflects spells cast at the wearer, exactly as if spell turning had been cast upon the wearer.
Caster Level: 15th; Prerequisites: Forge Ring, spell turning; Market Price: 150,000 gp.

Also many feats and other class ablilities that have no listed uses per day are assumed to have unlimited use. IMO the same applies in this case. And I think that cutting back this ability would rob the Dungeon Delver of one of it's only real benefits. Almost all of it's other special abilities or either insignificant or are easily replicated with magical items.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Dungeon Delver Revisited

IMO precedence goes to Ring of Spell Turning...

Except that rings generally function continuously, while the Blindsight of the Dungeon Delver does not.

Also many feats and other class ablilities that have no listed uses per day are assumed to have unlimited use. IMO the same applies in this case.

I don't really think it does. The inclusion of a limited duration would be senseless if the ability could be used at will. Even with a limited duration, it might as well be continuous if its at will, as there would be very little difference between the two.

Bracers of armor function continuously. They have a caster level of 7th. A 7th level caster will get 7 hours out of a mage armor spell. If the effects of Bracers of Armor were the spell at a caster level of 7th, with unlimited charges, that would be different. However, this is not the case. Bracers of Armor function continuously and they do not include a limited duration, thus they do not function at will, and such an assumption would be an incorrect one, IMO.

 

[LokiDR]

Strictly speaking, it looks like "at will" since there is no limit, but that would be subject to DM discression.

If you play with Savage Species and Arms and Equipment, this isn't a big deal at all. Blindsight, 30', is a 2nd level spell in SS and A&EG have an item for continuous 60' blindsight. Magic of Ferune has the 30' blindsight (longer duration) as a 3rd level spell.

As a DM who doesn't normally allow SS, A&EG magic items, or much of FR, I would want to split it into segments like the boots of speed or DD level in uses/day. That is probably a house rule, though.

 

[LokiDR]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Dungeon Delver Revisited

I don't really think it does. The inclusion of a limited duration would be senseless if the ability could be used at will. Even with a limited duration, it might as well be continuous if its at will, as there would be very little difference between the two.

I tend to believe that any ability that you must activate that has no listed number of uses (charges, single use item, x/day) are unlimited. The ring of spell turning is not continuous, but it is unlimited. DD blindsight is not continuous, but...

I would house rule that out though, in most games.