Dungeon Delver and Blindsight Revisited
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Camarath
Pale Master Tarrasque
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dungeon Delver Revisited
I didn't think that Ring of Spell Turning functioned continuously I thought it functioned "exactly as if spell turning had been cast upon the wearer". Thus I assumed on command you activated the ring and it functioned exactly as one casting of spell turning cast by a 15th lv caster. So it would have a duration 150 minutes and would turn 1d4+6 spell lvs before he effect would be exhausted and would need to be activated again. Does it have umlimited duration and does it turn unlimited spell levels?
kreynolds said:
I didn't think that Ring of Spell Turning functioned continuously I thought it functioned "exactly as if spell turning had been cast upon the wearer". Thus I assumed on command you activated the ring and it functioned exactly as one casting of spell turning cast by a 15th lv caster. So it would have a duration 150 minutes and would turn 1d4+6 spell lvs before he effect would be exhausted and would need to be activated again. Does it have umlimited duration and does it turn unlimited spell levels?
Henry
Autoexreginated
Even if it's unlimited, I don't necessarily see that much of an advantage, given that it's not just a feat, but requires the prestige class. IDHTBIFOM, but could someone list both the requirements for Dungeon Delver, and the level at which the ability is gained? is it first, or higher than that?
Maitre Du Donjon
First Post
IIRC, the power is gained at level 2. Don't know about the prerequisites.
Henry, regarding your sig, are you French / Francophone / is french a 2nd (or more) language?
Maitre D
Henry, regarding your sig, are you French / Francophone / is french a 2nd (or more) language?
Maitre D
Henry said:
Will do.
Requirements: (skills reqs are in ranks) climb 10, craft(stonmason) 5, disable device 10, hide 5, move silent 5, open lock 10, search 10. Alertnes and blindfighting feats. Special - amounts to lots of dungeon time.
Blindsight 20' comes at 2nd level, 40' at 8th level.
Blindsight (ex):
At 2nd level, the dungeon delver gains acute sensitivity to sounds, smells, movement, and other disturbances within 20 feet. This enchanced spatial sense enables him to maneuver and fight as well as he can under normal conditions, regardless of the ambient lighting. Invisibility is irrelevant, though the character cannot sense etherearl creatures. Blindsight does not replace normal vision. Activating this ability is a standard action, and the effect lasts for 10 minutes. This ability is not dependent upon hearing, so deafness and similar effects do not negate it. At 8th level, the dungeon delver's blindsight range increases to 40 feet.
kreynolds
First Post
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dungeon Delver Revisited
I always figured it works just like a Ring of Invisibility. You activate the RoI, and you stay invisible until you turn it off or you make an attack. There is no duration. In the case of a ring of spell turning, however, I do indeed think the duration is unlimited, but if you hit the limit of spell levels you can turn, it would expire like normal, just like a RoI when you attack.
Camarath said:
I always figured it works just like a Ring of Invisibility. You activate the RoI, and you stay invisible until you turn it off or you make an attack. There is no duration. In the case of a ring of spell turning, however, I do indeed think the duration is unlimited, but if you hit the limit of spell levels you can turn, it would expire like normal, just like a RoI when you attack.
cptg1481
First Post
OK Here's my solution
I have a similar problem in my campaign and after reading up on the BLINDSIGHT ability and the PrC I have come to the flowing conclusion.
The ability is way to powerful if it is both unlimited in its scope, by the type of sense associated with the delver’s ability to detect invisible creatures or its duration/uses per day.
So I have changed it to reflect a little more balance and I’ll ask my delver to choose one of the following options for the way he wants his BLINDSIGHT to work.
NOTE: I have taken scent out of the choices for the methods of how he wants his ability to work because it is an available FEAT in the DMG.
The player can have it work any one of the following ways:
Option 1:
This is a conglomeration of all of his senses to include the sixth sense we all have that alerts us to danger. He has developed over his time in the darkness the ability to sense the location of enemies in absolute darkness and when they are invisible etc. The range is 20’ to start as in the PrC description and increases to 40’ later in the delver’s progression.
Advantages: It is virtually impossible for any enemies to circumvent this ability since it uses a conglomeration of all of his senses to gather information.
Limitations: This is very taxing and while it may appear second nature to the delver it would be impossible to remain in this heightened state of attenuation for long periods of time. Therefore the delver can only use the ability one time per day for every two levels in the PrC with duration of up to 10 minutes per use. Does not detect ethereal creatures/objects.
Option 2:
Keen Hearing. This option represents that the delver having lived so long in the darkness has developed his hearing to the point of being able to locate enemies by the sounds they make while moving, fighting, and even breathing. The range is 20’ to start as in the PrC description and increases to 40’ later in the delver’s progression.
Advantages: It is always on and active
Limitations: The nature of this method of detection requires hearing and any natural (move silently) or magical silence (spell) negates it. Does not detect ethereal creatures/objects.
Option 3:
Echolocation. This option was honed and developed over his time in the darkness as a method of locating enemies and objects in the absolute darkness of the under-dark. The delver emits a shrill cry that them bounces off of objects and reveals their locations to him. The delver can tell living from non-living objects and their relative size. The range is 20’ to start as in the PrC description and increases to 40’ later in the delver’s progression.
Advantages: It can be used at will.
Limitations: This cannot be used underwater. It will not discern undead from other non-living material. It does not discriminate between friend and foe. Does not detect ethereal creatures/objects.
Option 4:
Temmorsense. This is the ability to detect enemies by the vibrations they make by moving or fighting when in contact with the ground. The range is 20’ to start as in the PrC description and increases to 40’ later in the delver’s progression.
Advantages: It is always on and active.
Limitations: The enemy has to be in contact with the ground and on the same surface as the delver. If there is a difference of more than 5’+/- in elevation between the delver and the enemy the enemies exact location remains uncertain. In that case the delver does know his general direction and approximate distance. It does not detect flying/ethereal creatures/objects.
I think that this is a fair and balanced proposal that keeps the flavor of the class without making the delver virtually impervious to the stealth of certain enemies.
I have a similar problem in my campaign and after reading up on the BLINDSIGHT ability and the PrC I have come to the flowing conclusion.
The ability is way to powerful if it is both unlimited in its scope, by the type of sense associated with the delver’s ability to detect invisible creatures or its duration/uses per day.
So I have changed it to reflect a little more balance and I’ll ask my delver to choose one of the following options for the way he wants his BLINDSIGHT to work.
NOTE: I have taken scent out of the choices for the methods of how he wants his ability to work because it is an available FEAT in the DMG.
The player can have it work any one of the following ways:
Option 1:
This is a conglomeration of all of his senses to include the sixth sense we all have that alerts us to danger. He has developed over his time in the darkness the ability to sense the location of enemies in absolute darkness and when they are invisible etc. The range is 20’ to start as in the PrC description and increases to 40’ later in the delver’s progression.
Advantages: It is virtually impossible for any enemies to circumvent this ability since it uses a conglomeration of all of his senses to gather information.
Limitations: This is very taxing and while it may appear second nature to the delver it would be impossible to remain in this heightened state of attenuation for long periods of time. Therefore the delver can only use the ability one time per day for every two levels in the PrC with duration of up to 10 minutes per use. Does not detect ethereal creatures/objects.
Option 2:
Keen Hearing. This option represents that the delver having lived so long in the darkness has developed his hearing to the point of being able to locate enemies by the sounds they make while moving, fighting, and even breathing. The range is 20’ to start as in the PrC description and increases to 40’ later in the delver’s progression.
Advantages: It is always on and active
Limitations: The nature of this method of detection requires hearing and any natural (move silently) or magical silence (spell) negates it. Does not detect ethereal creatures/objects.
Option 3:
Echolocation. This option was honed and developed over his time in the darkness as a method of locating enemies and objects in the absolute darkness of the under-dark. The delver emits a shrill cry that them bounces off of objects and reveals their locations to him. The delver can tell living from non-living objects and their relative size. The range is 20’ to start as in the PrC description and increases to 40’ later in the delver’s progression.
Advantages: It can be used at will.
Limitations: This cannot be used underwater. It will not discern undead from other non-living material. It does not discriminate between friend and foe. Does not detect ethereal creatures/objects.
Option 4:
Temmorsense. This is the ability to detect enemies by the vibrations they make by moving or fighting when in contact with the ground. The range is 20’ to start as in the PrC description and increases to 40’ later in the delver’s progression.
Advantages: It is always on and active.
Limitations: The enemy has to be in contact with the ground and on the same surface as the delver. If there is a difference of more than 5’+/- in elevation between the delver and the enemy the enemies exact location remains uncertain. In that case the delver does know his general direction and approximate distance. It does not detect flying/ethereal creatures/objects.
I think that this is a fair and balanced proposal that keeps the flavor of the class without making the delver virtually impervious to the stealth of certain enemies.
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