Elves and Secret Doors.. how do you pull it off?

[pneumatik]

So we have an elf in the party. Elves are entitled to make a search check simply by passing within 5' of a secret door.

Outside of constantly keeping up with the elf's Search modifer, how do you pull off the interaction at the table without revealing to the PC's that there 'may be' a secret door about?

Do you tell the Elf to roll a search check, randomly throwing in search checks routinely, all game every game, to confuse the elf so it doesn't know what it's rolling for?

Or do you REALLY keep an accurate record of the Elf's Search check modifer and roll it for the Elf, only telling the Elf if it succeeded?

Wisdom please!

Thanks!

I just mention to the elf player that they need to made a roll. If they don't find the door I don't tell them why they needed the roll. Sometimes they figure out it must have been a secret door, in which case they try to figure out if they have an in-character reason to actively search. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't, or sometimes they look around some more and determine that there must be a door around here that they're missing. To be honest I've never really worried about it.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

I keep track of the players Search, Spot and Listen modifiers for such instances. If the elf finds something I normally just announce it to everyone. If he wants to keep it secret then he can (my group are mature enough for that not to be a metagame issue).

 

[howandwhy99]

Set a time requirement. 1 Turn in a location is needed before the DM rolls.

Set a sensory distance requirement. The elf must be able see the location and pass within 30'.

Set a default DC. Elves find Secret Doors on a 1 on a 1d6 when not actively looking. So the DM rolls whenever a $-door is passed.

Pre-Roll dice. Have a list of d20 or d6 pre-rolled results to be processed in order when needed.
(Either always use pre-rolls or always roll as encountered.)

Don't apply modifiers until the situation is at hand. Especially challenging secret doors or what have you are harder to find. Concealed ones are easier. Apply modifiers only in special circumstances.

Do not use skill systems. Constant fine grained variation is rarely necessary and frequently a tracking nightmare.

 

[Elf Witch]

I keep track of all players search, spot, listen. I also have a sheet with a bunch of pre rolled dice results. If the elf spots a secret door while they are in a room I send a note. I do the same when the rogue sends me a not telling me he is using sleight of hand to palm something. I also do spot rolls to see if any one spots him doing it and send them a note.

 

[Sunseeker]

It's the duty of the player to best utilize their abilities.

 

[MarkB]

It's the duty of the player to best utilize their abilities.

Meaning what, in this context?

 

[delericho]

This sounded really strange for a moment, but then I remembered that dungeon exploration operated within a round structure back then, much like combat. (I think each dungeon-round was 10 minutes?)

Eh, sort of. It had turns, which were 10 minutes in length. But it would be a bit of a stretch to say exploration operated in a turn-based structure - it's much more free-form than that. Turns mostly existed for tracking durations (spells, and similar). That's probably why 3e dropped turns as a thing in the rules; they just weren't needed, since you could just as easily say "10 minutes" instead of "1 turn", lost no utility, and actually made more sense.

So if 1e had action types like modern D&D does, the elf's ability would probably read something like "An elf can search as a swift action."

No. The 1st Ed PHB uses pretty much exactly the same wording as the 3e version. (Well, of course, it's actually the other way around...)

Basically, Gygax's advice on this one really is just a bit strange, especially since he introduced the power in the first place. IMO, 4e was right to remove that vestigal power, and simply grant a general bonus to Perception instead.

(And, actually, I had thought it was 3e that made that change, and was going to post to that effect back in my first post in this thread. Fortunately, I decided I'd better check what it actually said before making a fool of myself. And, sure enough, 3e introduces the skill bonuses, but doesn't remove the auto-search power.)

 

[Sunseeker]

Meaning what, in this context?

That it is up to the player of in this case, an elf to determine how paranoid they are and to role-play that.

I don't care if it's "my elven senes are tingling, I suspect there is a secret door around." I will tell them to either roll, or no, their senses are misleading them.

I may be generous enough to inform them when they pass near one that their spider-senses are tingling, but generally speaking I leave it up to my players to keep their wits about them, or not.

 

[Jan van Leyden]

I used pre-rolled checks. Whenever an elf passed a secret door I took the next roll and compared it to the DC. In case of a success the player gets a hint ("you sense a small disturbance in the air"). The players recieve hints without a secret door being there, too, of course.

The die roll is crossed off the list regardless of the success.

 

[Scorpio616]

It's the duty of the player to best utilize their abilities.

Which for 3E, means the elf player just needs to walk next to as many walls as possible. That is all they have to do to have the d20 roll+ their search modifier to occur whether it is hidden around dummy rolls on one side of the screen or another. Hopefully the DM will have informed the players if the ability would be altered before they chose their character's race.

an elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.

And forcing Taking 10 on the roll is BS. Taking 10 is an option one takes to minimize low rolls by sacrificing high rolls, forcing it onto the Elf ability is a terrible nerf. Because unless you are also letting the elf jog around he room to take 20 to accelerate combing the dungeon, that makes the ability worthless since even a typical secret door has a DC of 20.

That said, elves are Humanoids, so their Secret Door B.S. is no secret to those with Knowledge: Local. Builders ingeneous enough to make secret doors will have the sense to place them out of the main paths in most areas. 5' is only the next square over, so the doors do not have to be hidden even that far from where folks will typically pass by.