Elves and Secret Doors.. how do you pull it off?

[N'raac]

an elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.

Agreed - that's the ability, so a Search roll is made whenever the elf passes within 5' of a secret door, whether or not he is looking for secret doors. Maintaining a record of the Elf's search modifier (and any other modifier that will routinely be used for secret checks of which the character is unaware) isn't that tough.

 

[Sunseeker]

Which for 3E, means the elf player just needs to walk next to as many walls as possible. That is all they have to do to have the d20 roll+ their search modifier to occur whether it is hidden around dummy rolls on one side of the screen or another. Hopefully the DM will have informed the players if the ability would be altered before they chose their character's race.

That would be what I generally regard as abusive behavior and I make an effort to put a stop to that. Yes, a player could walk within 5 feet of every wall in every place they ever visit and demand to know if their spider-sense is tingling, but I'd have a nice little chat with that player to tell them to cut it out or get out.

My job as DM requires enough work as it is. Players who make my life difficult while I'm trying to give them an enjoyable game are unwelcome.

And forcing Taking 10 on the roll is BS. Taking 10 is an option one takes to minimize low rolls by sacrificing high rolls, forcing it onto the Elf ability is a terrible nerf. Because unless you are also letting the elf jog around he room to take 20 to accelerate combing the dungeon, that makes the ability worthless since even a typical secret door has a DC of 20.

I'm not sure if you're replying to me on this part, since I don't do that.

 

[Yora]

Do elves still get a bonus in 3rd Edition? What about Pathfinder?
I seriously couldn't tell you.

I've always just completely ignored it, and I am not aware of any case in which it would ever have been relevant.

 

[Pheonix0114]

To those who say they make the players decide when to activate their elf senses, how does that make the elves different than say a human who regularly rolls perception to look for secret doors?

 

[Sunseeker]

To those who say they make the players decide when to activate their elf senses, how does that make the elves different than say a human who regularly rolls perception to look for secret doors?

It doesn't. They're still just as awfully annoying.

Elves have other abilities too.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

No. The 1st Ed PHB uses pretty much exactly the same wording as the 3e version. (Well, of course, it's actually the other way around...)

Basically, Gygax's advice on this one really is just a bit strange, especially since he introduced the power in the first place. IMO, 4e was right to remove that vestigal power, and simply grant a general bonus to Perception instead.

I'm not saying that the rule text isn't poorly written, or that I don't much prefer 4e's take on elves. (I do!) But I stick by my theory. I mean, early editions are notorious for poorly-explained rules. Thief skills much?

I can see how "An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret door is entitled to a search check as if she were actively searching for it" might, in the context of 1e's round-based exploration (free-form-ish or not), translate to "Elf players can declare searches without spending a round to do so." I.e., elves can search their immediate area without provoking the DM to roll for wandering monsters.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

That would be what I generally regard as abusive behavior and I make an effort to put a stop to that. Yes, a player could walk within 5 feet of every wall in every place they ever visit and demand to know if their spider-sense is tingling, but I'd have a nice little chat with that player to tell them to cut it out or get out.

My job as DM requires enough work as it is. Players who make my life difficult while I'm trying to give them an enjoyable game are unwelcome.



I'm not sure if you're replying to me on this part, since I don't do that.

I don't see how this is abusing their ability any more than a human making use of his bonus feat or a halfling adding +1 to all his saves. They have a racial ability that gives them a chance to detect secret doors. Why can't they use it all the time?

 

[N'raac]

That would be what I generally regard as abusive behavior and I make an effort to put a stop to that. Yes, a player could walk within 5 feet of every wall in every place they ever visit and demand to know if their spider-sense is tingling, but I'd have a nice little chat with that player to tell them to cut it out or get out.

My job as DM requires enough work as it is. Players who make my life difficult while I'm trying to give them an enjoyable game are unwelcome.

If you're doing your job as a GM, why would the player ever have to ask? When the elf passes by a wall, he gets an automatic search check. You know he has the ability, and you know where the secret doors are. Roll the dice and either pass him a note or don't depending on the results. He should never have to say he's searching unless he is actively searching. He should find a lot of secret doors just because he passes by them and notices them. That's what his ability is.

It should actually spare us a lot of "I look for secret doors here and here and here" - if they were there, the elf already received a roll to find them, so why should we keep announcing unless we've become pretty certain there's a secret door we missed?

I'd generally assume the elf will check out the room, unless I'm being told otherwise. Don't PC's look around and thoroughly explore rooms as a general premise?

 

[The Human Target]

Ugh, I had blocked this rule from my memory.

Neat idea, horrible execution.

 

[Sunseeker]

If you're doing your job as a GM, why would the player ever have to ask? When the elf passes by a wall, he gets an automatic search check. You know he has the ability, and you know where the secret doors are. Roll the dice and either pass him a note or don't depending on the results.

Actually I probably don't know. I don't memorize every racial ability, I don't memorize every character sheet, and I have no problem with a player reminding me that they have a particular ability.

It should actually spare us a lot of "I look for secret doors here and here and here" - if they were there, the elf already received a roll to find them, so why should we keep announcing unless we've become pretty certain there's a secret door we missed?

I'd generally assume the elf will check out the room, unless I'm being told otherwise. Don't PC's look around and thoroughly explore rooms as a general premise?

Sure, but I, as DM, don't memorize ever element of every player, I often have 5+ at my table. If the elf wants to "remind" me about his ability by saying "my elf senses give me a good feeling about finding a secret door in this room" or something to that effect, I will then actively keep it in mind.

Ugh, I had blocked this rule from my memory.

Neat idea, horrible execution.

Also, THIS. Rules that force the DM to run a certain aspect of the player are bad rules. I have no problem houseruling them to make my life easier.

I don't see how this is abusing their ability any more than a human making use of his bonus feat or a halfling adding +1 to all his saves. They have a racial ability that gives them a chance to detect secret doors. Why can't they use it all the time?

Because they are applied differently. They don't consume game-time, they don't cause things to slow down to a crawl until the elf has searched every 5-foot square of the room and so on and so forth.