Elves and Secret Doors.. how do you pull it off?

[The Human Target]

To me, as a DM, I have more than enough to do without tracking secret doors and stonework for the player.

Pelor bless the +2 Perception and +2 Dungeoneering.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

To me this discussion is making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill. I get that DM's have a lot on their plate to remember. Unfortunately that's part of being a DM. I've DM'd pretty much exclusively since around 2005, before that I was almost exclusively a player, so I've seen both sides.

There really aren't that many passive abilities that the DM needs to remember and roll for. Off the top of my head they would be elves detecting secret doors, dwarves and stonecunning, passive spot and listen checks, possibly passive search checks. I'm sure there are others that could come up. For example, if an NPC is lying to the party, they should probably automatically get a Sense Motive check to see if they pick up that the NPC isn't being completely truthful with them.

So as a DM, make a note of these passive checks and keep it somewhere that you can see it when you DM. That should help you remember until you get to the point where you've done it enough times to just remember automatically.

Of course, no one is perfect. I forget stuff in my game all the time as DM. However, one thing I try and keep in mind when DM'ing is to not sweat the small stuff. So if you forgetting something didn't get a PC killed or cause the PC's to miss out on an important clue or piece of the plot, then it's probably not big enough to worry about. As long as everyone is having fun it's all good!

 

[The Human Target]

To me this discussion is making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill. I get that DM's have a lot on their plate to remember. Unfortunately that's part of being a DM. I've DM'd pretty much exclusively since around 2005, before that I was almost exclusively a player, so I've seen both sides.

There really aren't that many passive abilities that the DM needs to remember and roll for. Off the top of my head they would be elves detecting secret doors, dwarves and stonecunning, passive spot and listen checks, possibly passive search checks. I'm sure there are others that could come up. For example, if an NPC is lying to the party, they should probably automatically get a Sense Motive check to see if they pick up that the NPC isn't being completely truthful with them.

So as a DM, make a note of these passive checks and keep it somewhere that you can see it when you DM. That should help you remember until you get to the point where you've done it enough times to just remember automatically.

Of course, no one is perfect. I forget stuff in my game all the time as DM. However, one thing I try and keep in mind when DM'ing is to not sweat the small stuff. So if you forgetting something didn't get a PC killed or cause the PC's to miss out on an important clue or piece of the plot, then it's probably not big enough to worry about. As long as everyone is having fun it's all good!

Oh for sure its not a big deal, but I sure don't miss it.

 

[sheadunne]

So we have an elf in the party. Elves are entitled to make a search check simply by passing within 5' of a secret door.

Outside of constantly keeping up with the elf's Search modifer, how do you pull off the interaction at the table without revealing to the PC's that there 'may be' a secret door about?

Do you tell the Elf to roll a search check, randomly throwing in search checks routinely, all game every game, to confuse the elf so it doesn't know what it's rolling for?

Or do you REALLY keep an accurate record of the Elf's Search check modifer and roll it for the Elf, only telling the Elf if it succeeded?

Wisdom please!

Thanks!

I tell the elf player to make a perception check. If s/he succeeds I tell them they found a secret door, otherwise I tell them nothing. I'm not sure why it matters that the players know or not. It's whether the characters know or not that matters in the game. The metagame action of rolling dice does not tell the character anything and the players act accordingly to the dice rolled.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

I tell the elf player to make a perception check. If s/he succeeds I tell them they found a secret door, otherwise I tell them nothing. I'm not sure why it matters that the players know or not. It's whether the characters know or not that matters in the game. The metagame action of rolling dice does not tell the character anything and the players act accordingly to the dice rolled.

One would hope the players are able to keep player knowledge separate from character knowledge, but that doesn't always happen sadly.