Epic problem OOC
- Thread starter Jemal
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Character submissions so far:
Good Team:
Shayuri - Silver Dragon w/ Rider - RG
Ivellious - Paladin Riding a Silver Dragon (No known relation to previous character) - RG
Darimaus - Human Paladin/Bard/SeekerOfSong - RG
Wrahn - Trumpet Archon(?) - RG
Pyrex - Paladin - RG
Evil Team:
Tailspinner - Half-Dragon (Blue)/Half-Ogre Fighter - RG
Avalon® - Old Kobold Wizard - RG
pallandrome - Evil Blackguard/Archmage (Interplanar Arms Dealer/Info Broker) - RG
Nephtys - Insane Human Priest - RG
Voidrazor - Human Priest (Melee Buffer) - OOC
Others:
sans - Arcane Caster?
Good Team:
Shayuri - Silver Dragon w/ Rider - RG
Ivellious - Paladin Riding a Silver Dragon (No known relation to previous character) - RG
Darimaus - Human Paladin/Bard/SeekerOfSong - RG
Wrahn - Trumpet Archon(?) - RG
Pyrex - Paladin - RG
Evil Team:
Tailspinner - Half-Dragon (Blue)/Half-Ogre Fighter - RG
Avalon® - Old Kobold Wizard - RG
pallandrome - Evil Blackguard/Archmage (Interplanar Arms Dealer/Info Broker) - RG
Nephtys - Insane Human Priest - RG
Voidrazor - Human Priest (Melee Buffer) - OOC
Others:
sans - Arcane Caster?
Jemal
Adventurer
OK...
Ivellious - Give her 1 or two basic items (Maybe Inherent Bonuses, a wand/staff) just b/c it would make sense, and still leave her with an impressive hoard.
Pyrex - Allright, I've double checked everything you get with the VoP, and I've decided to forgo giving you any extra feats. After doing the math, VoP is allready granting nearly double the 'cost' of items you could afford at this level.. +12, 10, 8 enhancements to stats... + 14 Armour Bonus, + 7 to ALL weapons, as well as all the 'special' abilities. The only downside is you don't get to choose when or what you get. I think it evens out, so I'm not going to give any bonus feats. sry. (PS If you wanted, you could always have taken the feat at higher than first level and spent some of your money from BEFORE it on Inherent bonuses, and you loose the extra Exalted Feats that you couldn't spend anyways.)
Neph - I get your point about the Ioun Stone, didn't actually check which ones you had, was just saying that IF you had one that mattered (Say the 'don't need to breath' one, and you were underwater), someone intelligent enough to recognize it could easily take it out. As for the Pearls, if they're somewhere they can't be seen, then they can't be targetted period. And they're a bit more difficult to identify than a colourful, prism-shaped stone circling your head.
As for the Soul Gems, that market would be mostly in Hell, where they deal with Souls.
As for Liquid Pain, you can't get that out of a Soul Gem, it must be extracted from a living person via the spell "Liquid Pain" or an item called the "Pain Extractor", both of which take 1 full dayto extract a single dose, and that single dose provides 3 XP for item creation. Since there's no cost to it other than a single lvl 4 spell and a living being (easy enough to obtain), i'm going to have to rule that you can't start with any 'free' stuff that you extracted, b/c otherwise people could say they've been doing it nonstop for the last 10 years and have 11,000 XP from it.
If you want to purchase "Agony", it sells for 200GP per dose, and is highly illegal on any non-evil plane
I also won't allow you to 'start' with a bunch of pre-trapped souls. (Unless you want to take them out of your followers, though.... um.. well, I guess you ARE evil...)
As for Other Uses, depending on the cost of the gem you use to trap the soul, you can use said gem as the material component to another spell, which would then CONSUME the material component (and the soul trapped within), thus preventing said soul from ever being brought back except by divine intervention.
Also, according to BoVD, using a receptacle which contains a Soul as a Material Component of a Spell (Whether you're using the Gem allready, or adding the soul gem as an Optional Component) increases your caster level check to overcome SR by +10 for that spell.
Shay - Re: the Bracers, You don't have Crafting feats, thus can't use the creation/substitution/etc rules. If you can't craft the item yourself, it has to be straight out of DMG/ELH, as printed.
As for your Cohort, I believe I posted Earlier that I'm not going to let Cohorts start with creation XP.
Void - Well, there's allready the exceptions posted before by Wrahn (Time Stop can't be contingent, and Temporary HP should be kept seperate).
AND the following:
I've seen nowhere that says you keep gaining Domain Spell slots above level 9. everything before that is Specific domain spells, which are included in the Clerical spell list as +D and Improved Spell Capacity has no +D and nowhere does it imply it grants extra domain slots.
You can't Persistant ANYSPELL, it's got a duration of Instantaneous and even so, doesn't say that Metamagic feats could be applied to the spell.
Please keep in mind that Anyspell, even if cast Spontaneously, doesn't actually CAST the spell, it allows you to PREPARE a 2nd level or lower Arcane spell which then occupies yoru 3rd lvl domain slot. Also, you must have a scroll or spellbook which contains the Arcane spell to be prepared. IF you had a way of spontaneously adding metamagic (As with the Sudden Feats or a Rod of Metamagic) that would then work on the prepared spell.
I Just noticed that your Character says Heirophant 2, Contemplative 18, but your Feat Progression shows Heirophant 1, Contemplative 19.. Which is it?*
Pallandrome - I found Sonic Might in Lyric Thaumaturge, but where's Sympathetic Vibration from?
Also, could people please type all your abilities from Class and Race so I know what they are without always having to go double check the books.
Ivellious - Give her 1 or two basic items (Maybe Inherent Bonuses, a wand/staff) just b/c it would make sense, and still leave her with an impressive hoard.
Pyrex - Allright, I've double checked everything you get with the VoP, and I've decided to forgo giving you any extra feats. After doing the math, VoP is allready granting nearly double the 'cost' of items you could afford at this level.. +12, 10, 8 enhancements to stats... + 14 Armour Bonus, + 7 to ALL weapons, as well as all the 'special' abilities. The only downside is you don't get to choose when or what you get. I think it evens out, so I'm not going to give any bonus feats. sry. (PS If you wanted, you could always have taken the feat at higher than first level and spent some of your money from BEFORE it on Inherent bonuses, and you loose the extra Exalted Feats that you couldn't spend anyways.)
Neph - I get your point about the Ioun Stone, didn't actually check which ones you had, was just saying that IF you had one that mattered (Say the 'don't need to breath' one, and you were underwater), someone intelligent enough to recognize it could easily take it out. As for the Pearls, if they're somewhere they can't be seen, then they can't be targetted period. And they're a bit more difficult to identify than a colourful, prism-shaped stone circling your head.
As for the Soul Gems, that market would be mostly in Hell, where they deal with Souls.
As for Liquid Pain, you can't get that out of a Soul Gem, it must be extracted from a living person via the spell "Liquid Pain" or an item called the "Pain Extractor", both of which take 1 full dayto extract a single dose, and that single dose provides 3 XP for item creation. Since there's no cost to it other than a single lvl 4 spell and a living being (easy enough to obtain), i'm going to have to rule that you can't start with any 'free' stuff that you extracted, b/c otherwise people could say they've been doing it nonstop for the last 10 years and have 11,000 XP from it.
If you want to purchase "Agony", it sells for 200GP per dose, and is highly illegal on any non-evil plane
I also won't allow you to 'start' with a bunch of pre-trapped souls. (Unless you want to take them out of your followers, though.... um.. well, I guess you ARE evil...)
As for Other Uses, depending on the cost of the gem you use to trap the soul, you can use said gem as the material component to another spell, which would then CONSUME the material component (and the soul trapped within), thus preventing said soul from ever being brought back except by divine intervention.
Also, according to BoVD, using a receptacle which contains a Soul as a Material Component of a Spell (Whether you're using the Gem allready, or adding the soul gem as an Optional Component) increases your caster level check to overcome SR by +10 for that spell.
Shay - Re: the Bracers, You don't have Crafting feats, thus can't use the creation/substitution/etc rules. If you can't craft the item yourself, it has to be straight out of DMG/ELH, as printed.
As for your Cohort, I believe I posted Earlier that I'm not going to let Cohorts start with creation XP.
Void - Well, there's allready the exceptions posted before by Wrahn (Time Stop can't be contingent, and Temporary HP should be kept seperate).
AND the following:
I've seen nowhere that says you keep gaining Domain Spell slots above level 9. everything before that is Specific domain spells, which are included in the Clerical spell list as +D and Improved Spell Capacity has no +D and nowhere does it imply it grants extra domain slots.
You can't Persistant ANYSPELL, it's got a duration of Instantaneous and even so, doesn't say that Metamagic feats could be applied to the spell.
Please keep in mind that Anyspell, even if cast Spontaneously, doesn't actually CAST the spell, it allows you to PREPARE a 2nd level or lower Arcane spell which then occupies yoru 3rd lvl domain slot. Also, you must have a scroll or spellbook which contains the Arcane spell to be prepared. IF you had a way of spontaneously adding metamagic (As with the Sudden Feats or a Rod of Metamagic) that would then work on the prepared spell.
I Just noticed that your Character says Heirophant 2, Contemplative 18, but your Feat Progression shows Heirophant 1, Contemplative 19.. Which is it?*
Pallandrome - I found Sonic Might in Lyric Thaumaturge, but where's Sympathetic Vibration from?
Also, could people please type all your abilities from Class and Race so I know what they are without always having to go double check the books.
Jemal said:
Fair enough. I'll take a look and see what I can manage there.
As it turns out, by kicking out the redundant feats and the ones I really didn't care for in the first place I can take VoP as my 18th level feat, which means I can afford to read 16 pts worth of tomes (440,000gp / 27,500gp per +1 Inherent) just before I hit 18th level.
I'll update & repost.
Last edited:
pallandrome
First Post
6th level bard spell form the SRD. It does 2d10 damage a round/level to freestanding structures (though it does not denote a size limit, so I suppose anything not carved out of a cavern fall or similar should work), but has a 10 minute casting time, with a range of touch.
Blargh! All the items I need are using the same consarned slots...
I need some options here. Is it permissible to take a DMG/ELH item and pay double cost for a "slotless" version? Is it permissible to buy an identical item, except that it uses a different slot than standard with possible attendent slot affinity penalty to cost)?
If I do take a crafting feat, can I still collaborate with my cohort (ie - Cohort contributes spells needed, I provide exp and feats needed) to create items?
I need some options here. Is it permissible to take a DMG/ELH item and pay double cost for a "slotless" version? Is it permissible to buy an identical item, except that it uses a different slot than standard with possible attendent slot affinity penalty to cost)?
If I do take a crafting feat, can I still collaborate with my cohort (ie - Cohort contributes spells needed, I provide exp and feats needed) to create items?
Nephtys
First Post
Jemal said:
That's an easy road to take, even without any good intentions
. So the market is fairly established and formalised? There's nothing too complicated about it?Jemal said:
3 XP doesn't really seem worth the bother.
Jemal said:
That's nice.
Is there any rule about how strong the soul must be (#XP?), or do all souls have the same effect?Wrahn said:
Doh! I should have remembered there was a reason the previous version had teleport contingencied rather than TS.
The Diehard vest is expensive only because I took it at Panarchus' caster level. 2 reasons, at the minimum CL it would only cost 4,000 which seems too low, and raising the CL is marginally useful against dispels.
Thanks for the suggestion on cometfall! That's really nasty, especially the no SR part.
Jemal - I realized the Anyspell thing driving home from work last night. I'll correct that and the temp HPs tonight.
As for domain spells in the 10th and 11th slots the SRD says "Each domain gives the cleric access to a domain spell at each spell level he can cast, from 1st on up, as well as a granted power." Am I wrong about being able to take a lower level domain spell in a higher slot? If this is a house rule I certainly don't have a problem with it, but I'd probably want to make some build changes.
Is the Diehard vest OK? If so could I take it at a caster level closer to the minimum. As I mentioned above 4K for the base price seems low, but 120K base is pretty pricey.
The current build should be Cleric 10/ Contemplative 19/ Hierophant 1.
Would a wonderous item giving the pounce ability be allowable? There's a set of gauntlets, Claws of the Leopard, in the Complete Adventurer that gives it, though only with the claws themselves. There's also psicrown that gives it free and clear using charges.
Jemal
Adventurer
Neph - It has to be a trapped, living soul in a receptacle. (Via Trap the Soul or similar spell)
As for the soul market (AKA what they're worth), there's no actual RULES on it, just some very thin guidelines stating stuff like "powerful souls are worth a lot, but good souls are worth more. Powerful good souls that have been corrupted are worth a lot." etc. It's all Ad-Hoc as far as I can tell... Depends on who you're dealing with, what they're looking for, and what you have to offer.
*On second looking, apparently you can sell a generic "trapped soul in a receptacle" for 200 GP, according to the BoVD. Such a soul is suitable only for the optional "+10 profane bonus to caster level check to overcome SR" Material Component. I'm going to say screw that, We'll make it up as we go along.*
Pallandrome - I'm using the books, not the SRD. Also, I'm gonna say no to that spell. If you want to bring down a building, there are other ways you'll have to try.
Shayuri - I've found that Epic Characters tend to be defined by their items, and it is this that makes them seem unbalanced when compared either to each other or to NPC's/Monsters. The main reason I have for limiting the Items as much as I am is to prevent such things and make the players think harder about how to spend their money and which item they want in which slot, instead of how to twink everything. So no, you can't use any of the variant/alternate rules including making slotless, adding extra abilities (With the exception of Armour and Weapons which are designed SPECIFICALLY like that), or changing slots. Unless you invest the Feat and XP to craft it yourself.
BUT, I WILL allow you to have your Cohort help by provide the spell requirement, so long as it is your character spending GP and XP to create said item.
And as a final note, I do still retain final veto on any created item if I don't like it. (As I previously did with Permanent Death Ward)
Void - As I've said before, I use the books, not the SRD/Errata, and although it does say the bit about 'first on up' in the book, it ALSO says the same thing for the Rogue's Special Abilities (On attaining 10th level and every 3 levels thereafter), though it's clear from the ELH that they don't, and since nowhere in the ELH does it say that you DO gain extra domain spells for Improved Spell Capacity, I'd have to say it doesn't provide it. The Feat specifically states what it Does give you, and it makes no mention of Wizard Specialist bonuses or Clerical Domains.
You CAN fill a higher level domain slot with a lower level domain spell, however.. just limited up to the 9th level domain slots you get.
DieHard Vest - It's allright, make it whatever caster level you want, it's effects are almost negligible. At most it's the equivalent of an Extra HP = your con score. I'll Rule minimum caster lvl 5 for it.
Pounce Item - I'd have to say no for now unless I have a flash of insight as to what it should cost, simply b/c A)Psicrown sounds Psionic, and B) Pounce is better than an Epic Feat. As such, it should be at least an Epic Item, which I doubt any examples you could find would be.
As for the soul market (AKA what they're worth), there's no actual RULES on it, just some very thin guidelines stating stuff like "powerful souls are worth a lot, but good souls are worth more. Powerful good souls that have been corrupted are worth a lot." etc. It's all Ad-Hoc as far as I can tell... Depends on who you're dealing with, what they're looking for, and what you have to offer.
*On second looking, apparently you can sell a generic "trapped soul in a receptacle" for 200 GP, according to the BoVD. Such a soul is suitable only for the optional "+10 profane bonus to caster level check to overcome SR" Material Component. I'm going to say screw that, We'll make it up as we go along.*
Pallandrome - I'm using the books, not the SRD. Also, I'm gonna say no to that spell. If you want to bring down a building, there are other ways you'll have to try.
Shayuri - I've found that Epic Characters tend to be defined by their items, and it is this that makes them seem unbalanced when compared either to each other or to NPC's/Monsters. The main reason I have for limiting the Items as much as I am is to prevent such things and make the players think harder about how to spend their money and which item they want in which slot, instead of how to twink everything. So no, you can't use any of the variant/alternate rules including making slotless, adding extra abilities (With the exception of Armour and Weapons which are designed SPECIFICALLY like that), or changing slots. Unless you invest the Feat and XP to craft it yourself.
BUT, I WILL allow you to have your Cohort help by provide the spell requirement, so long as it is your character spending GP and XP to create said item.
And as a final note, I do still retain final veto on any created item if I don't like it. (As I previously did with Permanent Death Ward)
Void - As I've said before, I use the books, not the SRD/Errata, and although it does say the bit about 'first on up' in the book, it ALSO says the same thing for the Rogue's Special Abilities (On attaining 10th level and every 3 levels thereafter), though it's clear from the ELH that they don't, and since nowhere in the ELH does it say that you DO gain extra domain spells for Improved Spell Capacity, I'd have to say it doesn't provide it. The Feat specifically states what it Does give you, and it makes no mention of Wizard Specialist bonuses or Clerical Domains.
You CAN fill a higher level domain slot with a lower level domain spell, however.. just limited up to the 9th level domain slots you get.
DieHard Vest - It's allright, make it whatever caster level you want, it's effects are almost negligible. At most it's the equivalent of an Extra HP = your con score. I'll Rule minimum caster lvl 5 for it.
Pounce Item - I'd have to say no for now unless I have a flash of insight as to what it should cost, simply b/c A)Psicrown sounds Psionic, and B) Pounce is better than an Epic Feat. As such, it should be at least an Epic Item, which I doubt any examples you could find would be.
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