Fighters vs mages at high level.

[Thanee]

One more thing about those standard actions...

Casting a spell is also a standard action... and you can build a wizard without losing much in terms of spellcasting ability, that has +16 BAB by 20th level.

Four spells per round + quickened and whatnot! Wheeee!

Luckily, that's not how it works.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Also, Moment of Prescience will work. Initiative is an opposed Dex check.

This is wrong! An initiative check is not an opposed check.

Hey, can't always argue against our bored gremlin friend.

Bye
Thanee

 

[IcyCool]

This is wrong! An initiative check is not an opposed check.

Hey, can't always argue against our bored gremlin friend.

Bye
Thanee

It isn't, how so?

 

[Thanee]

An opposed check is a check whose success or failure is determined by comparing the check result to another character’s check result. In an opposed check, the higher result succeeds, while the lower result fails. In case of a tie, the higher skill modifier wins. If these scores are the same, roll again to break the tie.

At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is a Dexterity check. Each character applies his or her Dexterity modifier to the roll. Characters act in order, counting down from highest result to lowest. In every round that follows, the characters act in the same order (unless a character takes an action that results in his or her initiative changing; see Special Initiative Actions). If two or more combatants have the same initiative check result, the combatants who are tied act in order of total initiative modifier (highest first). If there is still a tie, the tied characters should roll again to determine which one of them goes before the other.

You can't win or fail an initiative check. Also opposed checks are between two characters only.

Bye
Thanee

 

[IcyCool]

You can't win or fail an initiative check. Also opposed checks are between two characters only.

Bye
Thanee

Ah, that's what threw me. Initiative is an ability check, it's just not an opposed ability check. Heck, even the wording is very similar between those two passages.

BAH!

 

[Gidien]

Sorry for the vagueness earlier. In the said story, I don't believe that the int boosting spell chain was 0 DC (Though I don't think it was too high, either, as the spells were developed quickly in the story).

Take 3 epic casters, one a druid. Each spell boosts everyone's int. Each spell does massive backlash and requires all casters to contribute spell slots. Druid heals all after each spell. First, big enhancement bonus to int. Then inherent. Then insight. Then luck (?), and so on, until all types of stat bonuses have been exhausted. They ended up with above godlike intelligence for a time, and had to agree beforehand not to use the power to wreck anything, just to use spellcraft checks with and artifact.

The 0 DC spells were generally to do basic stuff like massive damage to multiple opponents or force save or die on a lot of opponents.

 

[jrients]

Wizards have to prepare thier spells though. Sorcerers are a realistic problem. Wizards are not. Real high level wizards get attacked once in a blue moon. At best. They dont sit around all day doing nothing prepared for that one random fighter to come knock on the door and kill them. They create items, research spells, do divinations to look for items or lost spells they want to acquire. They do all sorts of things that require spellcasting so they cant just prepare for a fighter all day everyday. Realistically they are more likely to get jumped by a greedy dragon, demon or other high level mage.

Once you step away from a stand-up fight to any scenario other than a planned duel the wizard should just leave. Tell me how the fighter prevents the wizard from escaping. I don't run high level characters but if I was an epic wizard my first line of defense would be some sort of Get Me The Hell Out of Here spell.

 

[CRGreathouse]

At any rate, I second Lord Pendragon's suggestion of having you create a 30th level fighter that you believe will destroy every 30th level mage he comes accross. We can then stack him up against a 30th level wizard someone else will build and see what we can come up with. I'm willing to bet neither side has a clear advantage.

I'd like to see this as well. In fact, I'd even be willing to adjudicate -- look over created characters and supervise combat.

Of course, in the interests of fairness, both characters would be built just to win these sorts of fights and would be built in secret (no preparing specifically for the other character's stats!).

 

[DM with a vengence]

I don't know if this holds true at 30+, but in general my experiences at around level 15 have been that Fighters can't catch Wizards, and Wizards take a few rounds to kill fighters. While Hacky McSlash the fighter can kill any wizard with a full attack, it'll take at least two or three Chain Lightnings to bring him down.

If I were design a fighter to kill a wizard, I'd take a tweaked out Fighter/Paladin/Cavalier on a flying mount, Griffin if you're being stingy, dragon if you're not, and hit him with a 300+ damage attack in round one.

If I were taking the wizard, I'd try to dance around the fighter, not get hit, set up my defenses, and then keep hitting him with Instakills until he fails a save.

Either way, this is probably a question for the experts at The Exodous Arena at rpol.net. They do this a lot more than I do.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

If I were design a fighter to kill a wizard, I'd take a tweaked out Fighter/Paladin/Cavalier

So, if you were in a knife fight, you'd bring a gun, eh?