D&D 5E Fireball tweak idea

[Reynard]

Our world has high-explosive artillery shells, but that doesn't mean every street criminal is going to expect or tactically account for them.

But every cartel gang expects to have to deal with automatic weapons and grenades when they face government agents, and that is a much more apt comparison.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Crunching the numbers, you would have:

5-foot radius: 6.0% chance, average damage 19.8
10-foot radius: 11.5% chance, average damage 23
15-foot radius: 20.2% chance, average damage 25.5
20-foot radius: 24.5% chance, average damage 28
25-foot radius: 20.2% chance, average damage 30.5
30-foot radius: 11.5% chance, average damage 33
35-foot radius: 4.5% chance, average damage 35.5
40-foot radius: 1.2% chance, average damage 38
More than 40 feet: 0.3% chance, average damage 40.8

I kind of like it. It's extremely volatile though, because the radius scales with the damage roll: Either you do a lot of damage in a big area (which is when you are most likely to hit allies), or a little damage in a small area. As a longtime wizard player who remembers the chaotic glory of AD&D blasting magic, that has some appeal, but I can also see how it could get unpleasantly swingy.

If you decide to try this in play, please let us know how it turns out!

Maybe a simple:
If the fireball deals at least 35 damage, the radius increases by 10 ft where it deals half damage. If the fireball deals less than 20 damage, the radius is decreased by 10 ft.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Maybe a simple:
If the fireball deals at least 35 damage, the radius increases by 10 ft where it deals half damage. If the fireball deals less than 20 damage, the radius is decreased by 10 ft.

My first thought was something like that, but it doesn't scale cleanly when you upcast the spell. Counting the ones and sixes is level-neutral.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

But every cartel gang expects to have to deal with automatic weapons and grenades when they face government agents, and that is a much more apt comparison.

...for some campaign worlds.

 

[Krachek]

That's how you get power creep. Any damage spell at 3rd level (and even higher) currently has to measure up to this spell that is deliberately and explicitly overpowered, dealing 33% more damage than the DMG guidelines say it should. If fireball did not exist, I'd wager, you would not be saying that there are zero efficient area damage spells. There would be plenty of efficient area damage spells. They're only inefficient when compared to fireball.

So I could just drop the damage down to 6d6 where it ought to be by the book. But I don't really want to do that. I do want fireball to be the scary iconic room-clearing spell it has always been. But I want casters to have to think about whether it's the right spell for the situation.

Spell damage area [or not ] is often lame compare to the efficiency and reliability of martial damage.
so I do t think it’s wise to nerf the only good one.

 

[Reynard]

...for some campaign worlds.

We were talking about the base assumptions of the game.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

We were talking about the base assumptions of the game.

I have a hard time believing that specific complex monster behavior is a part of the base balance assumptions of the game. At the very least, if it were, I would expect to see it laid out somewhere in the MM or DMG explicitly.

 

[jasper]

I am hardly the first to notice that fireball is a pretty good spell. In fact, in my experience it tends to crowd out all the other 3rd-level options, even for characters who aren't big on evocation. I don't want to nerf it into the ground: it's iconic, and tossing a room-filling explosion should have a sudden and dramatic effect (I'm looking at you, 4E). But explosions are also fickle. So here's a simple change that sprang to mind this morning:

Increase the radius of the fireball by 5 feet for each 6 you roll on its damage dice. Decrease the radius of the fireball by 5 feet for each 1 you roll on its damage dice (to a minimum of 5 feet).

So it's still a big, painful kaboom. It's still absolutely the right tool for the job in some circumstances. But because the radius is unpredictable, the caster can't place it with surgical precision and use it in every circumstance -- not without the risk of frying an ally, anyway.

Thoughts?

And reduced by 5 feet for every one you roll. Hey if you going make me do map math after the roll, you better do it right.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Spell damage area [or not ] is often lame compare to the efficiency and reliability of martial damage.
so I do t think it’s wise to nerf the only good one.

...

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[jasper]

Adapted from my 1E game where I had 3 fireball versions. Fireball 2 increase the radius 10 feet 6s become 5s. Fireball version 3. 10 foot cube/radius. 1s become 6s.