Fireball vs. Wind Wall

[Praeden]

Why do you say this? Nowhere in the spell description is such mentioned. It claims to be ineffective against huge boulders and siege weapons. It says nothing about magical effects. Fireball creates a small pebble, and fires it at a set point, at which point it "blossoms into a fireball." The pebble can't bypass an arrow slit any more than a non-magical arrow can. Why is it able to ignore a wall of wind?

Last bit first - the two situations are rather different. A gaseous creature would be able to go through an arrow slit, but not a Wind Wall. A catapult projectile would go through a Wind Wall, but not an arrow slit.

Secondly, the spell description is very specific about what it affects. Small/light creatures and objects, gases, and normal projectiles. Everything else is unaffected. So it is quite right to say that any spell which doesn't produce one of the things on the list is unaffected. The list is sufficiently clear that it isn't necessary to list all the things that are unaffected by the spell. The only reason that they specifically rule out large missiles is simply to clarify what is meant by a normal missile.

I think that a glowing bead that shoots from your fingertip and then explodes is sufficiently far from most people's idea of a 'normal missile' that the designers didn't feel the need to include additional clarification. That it can travel more than one thousand feet instantaneously should be proof enough of that. The fact that you sometimes need to make attack rolls for it does not automatically make it a normal missile.

As a happy side-effect, the rulings become a lot easier if you take this view.

This reminds me of a similar ruling I was once asked to make. I might start another thread, see if we can turn this into a regular feature!

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Well, there definitely seems to be a general consensus that Fireball trumps Wind Wall. As far as my particular reason for originally asking the question, I'm not sure whether this consensus is good or bad. We'll have to see when we play this Thursday.

Thanks for the opinions everyone.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Just to throw an oar in, my gut reaction is to rule that the fireball pellet *would* be deflected upwards by the wind wall, since the fireball description specifically allows the fireball pellet to be affected by things before it reaches its normal range for explosion (unlike any other spell that I can think of).

 

[Jeff Wilder]

affected by things before it reaches its normal range for explosion (unlike any other spell that I can think of).

Just about every spell is affected by things within its normal range. It's called "line of effect." As pointed out by someone earlier, fireball is a strange exception to Line of Effect, but that doesn't mean it differs from spells in any given other way.


Jeff

 

[Tatsukun]

I hate to stir up the waters any more, but what about other spells?

Does a windwall stop a magic missile?

I would say no. Or rather that it could effect it, but the 30% miss chance wouldn't make any difference because a MM always hits.

Melf's Acid arrow?

I would say yes, as it is an arrow.

Acid splash?

I would say yes, with a 30% miss chance.

All and all, this makes Windwall MUCH more useful (or maybe it's that we have just discovered how useful it was meant to be all along).

-Tatsu

 

[ARandomGod]

I'd orignially say no, wind wall has no effect.

I'd be perfectly willing to say yes, however, and give it a 30% miss chance. But, doing either (the yes or the 30%) would to me also imply an ability to target and potentially hit (ranged touch attack) a person with the pellet. A hit target I would say gets no save. A nice effect... (And not unprecedented, see Meteor Swarm)

Now, what would I say a 30% miss chance would mean? Well... it would obviously have a 30% miss on that ranged touch I meantioned in conjunction, but that's a little beside the point. I'd say that there is a 30% chance that the fireball would explode in a random square 5 ft away from the square it was intended to explode in. Not generally something that's going to matter much, certainly, but still an effect.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

All and all, this makes Windwall MUCH more useful (or maybe it's that we have just discovered how useful it was meant to be all along).

You don't think that automatically causing arrows and bolts to miss -- no matter how bad-ass the archer, no matter how magical the bow and ammo -- is powerful enough?


Jeff

 

[Nail]

All and all, this makes Windwall MUCH more useful (or maybe it's that we have just discovered how useful it was meant to be all along).

Wind wall is a good 3rd level spell...if you've got more than 2 3rd level slots. Otherwise Obscuring Mist does an adequate job filling that role.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Just about every spell is affected by things within its normal range. It's called "line of effect."

blocking line of effect is a different kettle of fish entirely. I can block line of effect for any other spell and the spell just doesn't affect its target. Fireball is the only spell where there is a possibility of premature detonation due to blocked line of effect.

That's different enough for me to take notice.

Cheers

 

[Jeff Wilder]

That's different enough for me to take notice.

It's more than that. Apparently it's different enough for you to extrapolate to other rules where there no indication that was the intent. We all notice the difference ... it's how far we're willing to say it goes that distinguishes the opinions here.


Jeff