D&D 5E Fixing Eldritch Blast

[Yunru]

A little bit more precise than that would be nice. Do you mean the spell creation guidelines?

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Well the post above yours was me wuoting the exact pages for the spell creation guidlines, so...

 

[Psychman]

The gooood stuff. (DMG p.283-284)

I see where you are coming from based on that table, but if you look at all the cantrips, the "half damage on a miss" doesn't seem to appear, maybe due to the fact they are not a limited resource in the way levelled spells are.

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[Yunru]

Cantrips are the spellcaster's baseline, their equivalent of a weapon. As they also have full spells as the core of their class, it is only fair that a weapon user should edge out a caster with that level of resource.

As the Warlock has a much more limited spell resource, they have Eldritch Blast that can match the weapon user like for like. If you enhance the cantrips spellcasters will be significantly more powerful than weapon users, which has been an issue in previous editions of the game.

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Oh I don't disagree, but by their own metric WotC has made all cantrips too weak.

 

[Ancalagon]

Well the post above yours was me wuoting the exact pages for the spell creation guidlines, so...

I apologize, I am not sure if it's timing or inattention but I missed it

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[Psychman]

Oh I don't disagree, but by their own metric WotC has made all cantrips too weak.

Maybe the metric should be d8 plus rider effect/aspect? A question for Sage Advice as to how the PHB cantrips fit with the DM design advice, I think.

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[Yunru]

Maybe the metric should be d8 plus rider effect/aspect? A question for Sage Advice as to how the PHB cantrips fit with the DM design advice, I think.

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For cantrips the metric is definitely d10, reducing for riders.

For spells of higher level, it's impossible to tell, since they deliberately overpower "legacy" spells like Magic Missile and Fireball. (Which is dumb.)

 

[Psychman]

For cantrips the metric is definitely d10, reducing for riders.

For spells of higher level, it's impossible to tell, since they deliberately overpower "legacy" spells like Magic Missile and Fireball. (Which is dumb.)

Oh, I realise what is written, but as you say it does make some riders more valuable than others. Look at firebox and E Blast, both the "baseline", their range is strictly better than any others, most of which work on 60 or even 30ft, as well as having riders. It does make me curious as to the rationale for some of the cantrips, particularly ones such as produce flame.

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[CapnZapp]

No cantrip does enough damage. A cantrip vs 1 target is supposed to do 1d10 with half on a miss.
Or 25% more if it doesn't have half-on-a-miss. So 1d12.
Thus both Fireball and Eldritch Blast should do 1d12 unless they have some interesting rider.

It isn't as easy as this.

Sorcerers gain +Charisma to their spells, meaning cantrips become quite viable.

Warlocks gain +Charisma per bolt plus push, meaning cantrips become very powerful.

We should not discuss cantrips in isolation.

Yes, for other casters, a Wizard say, cantrips remain weakish, especially at low levels where you have a pretty good chance at not killing even a Kobold.

But you can't just upgrade all cantrips across the board, and certainly not Eldritch Blast!

Personally, I'm okay with how a spellcaster with decent Dex can still find a crossbow more consistent than a cantrip, before level 5.

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[CapnZapp]

You don't get fighting styles with Eldritch Blast?

Correct.

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[Werebat]

I think most cantrips are pretty poor compared to FB and EB. CT can hold its own in the right situation, as it messes with regeneration and healing. Acid Splash is kind of a joke, unless you are an evoker in which case you almost have to take it if you want to use your crummy 6th level ability. Poison Spray is a joke and badly needs a revision. The druidic Produce Flame is kind of OK in that it alleviates the need for Light or another similar cantrip, but if you had a choice of either one you'd probably want FB, which is fine IMO because druids get the amazing Thorn Whip.