D&D 5E Fizban's Treasury Dragons Ranked By Challenge Rating

WotC has been sending out previews of Fizban's Treasury of Dragons, due out next month, to folks on Twitter. Amongst those are art pieces and other items.

By Challenge Rating the dragons in the book are:

• Ancient crystal (19)
• Ancient topaz (20)
• Ancient emerald (21)
• Ancient moonstone (21)
• Ancient sapphire (22)
• Elder brain dragon (22)
• Ancient amethyst (23)
• Ancient dragon turtle (24)
• Gem greatwyrm (26)
• Chromatic greatwyrm (27)
• Metallic greatwyrm (28)
• Apects of Bahamut and Tiamat (30)

Interestingly, it appears that the great wyrm category is divided into three -- gem, chromatic, metallic -- rather than by each dragon type.

There's also an alphabetical list of all 20 dragon types in the book:

• Amethyst
• Black
• Blue
• Brass
• Bronze
• Copper
• Crystal
• Deep
• Dragon turtle
• Emerald
• Faerie
• Gold
• Green
• Moonstone
• Red
• Sapphire
• Shadow
• Silver
• Topaz
• White

 

[Scribe]

99% of it seems to be the standardization of their look.

Standardized look. -> Removal of agency at the player level.
Flipped the ASI. -> Removal of the -2 Cha!
Standardized back story -> Removal of agency at the player level.
Monolithic history. -> 'Forced' Asmodeus changes.

Not a single thing I see as a positive!

what is the point if you do not look like you walked from hell anyway? do they want to look like Demogorgon?

No? Not at all.

Haer'Dalis

This sparrow is ready to fly... at your command, of course. Haer'Dalis is a chaotic neutral tiefling blade and a potential companion in Haer'Dalis may be recruited in Chapter 2 though he is more difficult to find than most companions. The party must first visit the basement theater of the Five...

baldursgate.fandom.com

Thats the whole point. We used to be able to look like how we wanted our characters to appear. The 4e version ruined that.

Granted, they (Wizards) have heard my pleas, and backed off of all that and we have a solution in SCAG, but thats the root of it for me. The 4e Tiefling took away player agency, and forced this thing on us that may as well be a Cambion.

 

[Bolares]

Flipped the ASI. -> Removal of the -2 Cha!

Removing negative traits is always a positive in my books

 

[Scribe]

Removing negative traits is always a positive in my books

Mathematically, you may be on to something.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

What burns me about the 4e tieflings is that they were reimagined clearly for commercial purposes, essentially to add to the brand. A terrible reason to worldbuild.

I think that is making a rather jaded assumption. Simplifying things can often be a good thing. I think for the story of 4e, the tiefling makes perfect sense for world building

 

[Mind of tempest]

Standardized look. -> Removal of agency at the player level.
Flipped the ASI. -> Removal of the -2 Cha!
Standardized back story -> Removal of agency at the player level.
Monolithic history. -> 'Forced' Asmodeus changes.

Not a single thing I see as a positive!



No? Not at all.

Haer'Dalis

This sparrow is ready to fly... at your command, of course. Haer'Dalis is a chaotic neutral tiefling blade and a potential companion in Haer'Dalis may be recruited in Chapter 2 though he is more difficult to find than most companions. The party must first visit the basement theater of the Five...

baldursgate.fandom.com

Thats the whole point. We used to be able to look like how we wanted our characters to appear. The 4e version ruined that.

Granted, they (Wizards) have heard my pleas, and backed off of all that and we have a solution in SCAG, but thats the root of it for me. The 4e Tiefling took away player agency, and forced this thing on us that may as well be a Cambion.

they removed all minus numbers is not a flaw.
a concrete origin help place them in a setting.
a look that has propelled them to stardom.

before it was a race that would never make it into the handbook now it is a major race.
before what was it charts you rolled on?
and how many people really care beyond horns, tails and hoofs anyway?

the problem with infinite possibility is you end up in a decision trap of not knowing where to go with it which is a minus to playability.
should it have stayed a third-place race? what should have had that slot instead?

 

[Scribe]

they removed all minus numbers is not a flaw.
a concrete origin help place them in a setting.
a look that has propelled them to stardom.

Removing negative modifiers is a flaw. (Subjective)
Then they should have been left there.
Subjective.

and how many people really care beyond horns, tails and hoofs anyway?

Clearly many, since in your estimation that is what propelled them to 'stardom'.

the problem with infinite possibility is you end up in a decision trap of not knowing where to go with it which is a minus to playability.
should it have stayed a third-place race? what should have had that slot instead?

If thats a problem, boy do I have some news for you regarding new race design.

Nothing needed to be added, but they could have easily retained the proper Tiefling, and even included the Aasimar which oddly enough doesnt NEED to look like a glowing, Wings sprouted, Halo on head, Angel.

 

[Bolares]

I think everyone has a point here. IMHO the best way to do a lineage is not to be entirelly free (like it was before 4e) o be too restrictive (like it was in 4e and early 5e). To me the best way to go is to give the lineage a definitive look and backstory, to give players somewhere to start creating from, and then give other options and variants. that's why I like what SCAG did (that book had to do at least one thing right), giving more backgrounds for Tieflings.

 

[Faolyn]

What's the problem with 4e tieflings?

A single source (Asmodeus) and a single appearance. Unfortunately, 5e kept those things.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

A single source (Asmodeus) and a single appearance. Unfortunately, 5e kept those things.

Until Mordekainen's came out with the Tiefling subraces for the different Archdukes of Baator.

 

[Scribe]

Until Mordekainen's came out with the Tiefling subraces for the different Archdukes of Baator.

Yes, a poor original offering, based on the prior misstep being brought forward, was eventually (years later) fixed.