Gender Reversal in D&D

[Dark Jezter]

I fail to see how Chris Rock is any different from, say, Andrew Dice Clay, Sam Kinison, Axl Rose or Eminem all of whom had not-very-nice things to say about various oppressed groups. This did not stop the careers of any of them in their heyday. I have heard some people say Chris Rock is in bad taste just as some people back in the day said that Andrew Dice Clay was in bad taste. Others like their un-PCness. The ability to say un-PC things and get away with it is not limited to minorities.

Axl Rose, Andrew Dice Clay, and the late Sam Kinison all had their careers in their haydays in the 1980s and early-1990s, before victimology became such a widespread phenomenon. It would be interesting indeed to see how their attitudes would be tolerated in today's world.

Eminem is the most modern example you brought up, and he did take a lot of flak after a recording made in 1988 where he made unflattering remarks about black women became public a while back. He denounced his own statements and attributed it to the foolishness of youth, as well he should have. Interestingly enough, rappers Ice Cube and Ice-T have released numerous songs over the years where the lyrics promote violence against whites, mysogyny, and cop-killing. There have been no apologies issued for these songs, and both men are now Hollywood actors.

With all due respects, though, I'm going to bow out of this this part of the discussion because I think that we're getting too sidetracked from the topic of this thread (why female-only PrCs are so common while male-only PrCs are so rare), and continuing along this line will probably lead to a political discussion that will get the thread closed. But I must say good argument with bringing up Kinison, Clay, Rose, and Eminem. It really made me think about my rebuttal.

Well I think its kind of silly especially when the female dominated societies where men are oppresed are considered good societies like the hathrans in FR.

Another example would be the island of Evermeet, which is ruled by a queen and an all-female council of elves that the old 2e suppliment Elves of Evermeet described as being wiser and more enlightened than any male ruler could possibly be. This, combined with the "elves are superior to humans in every way" tone of the book soon resulted in me closing it in disgust and never caring to look in it again.

I also think the lack of Human prestige classes is moronic beyond comprehension. While they may be the default, humans last time I checked have societies on the various game worlds. And those societies could develop a thing or two maybe even a prestige class, and maybe humans just might be distrusting/racist enough not to share there prestige class with other races.

Hmmm, good point. The only human-only PrC I can think of right now is the Red Wizard, which requires the wizard to be a human from Thay.

 

[S'mon]

The ability to say un-PC things and get away with it is not limited to minorities.

It's best to stick to saying un-PC things about your 'own' (what you're perceived as being) group though, at least in public.

 

[S'mon]

I could somewhat accept that but the oppresion of 1/2 the populaiton should be a huge mark, big enough to knock them out of good but not necesarrily to evil, but I've never seen anything in any FR materials that suggests its even a blemish on there record.(I'll freely admit I'm not a FR expert, I've read a decent amount of 2e materials and the 3e, 3.5 materials though I could of missed stuff) And this could be them just glossing it over as you put it, or it could be them acting like it actually isn't bad cause well its only men.

I'm not familiar with FR but if they're as bad as you say I'd probably rate them as N in my campaign world, like the Marrakeen (patriarchal quasi-Arabic society IMC), even if they're LG in most other respects.

 

[Cerubus Dark]

Heres the NBC Schedule for Tuesday, May 18



Conan Obrien, Jay Leno and Carson Daly - so it seems like the white males out there are covered
and of course the Klan does have a TV station...

So what they have the Red Neck Beer Channel, big deal have you seen the show line up?

8:00 pm White Hoods, White Robes : How to take care of your uniform

8:30 pm As the Hood Turns: On tonights episode Jack finds out that Billybob stole the last beer

9:00 pm Jerry Springer : Help my Non Klan daddy is ruining my life

10:00 pm Drunk Newz : Grab your beer its time for the newz!

 

[Flyspeck23]

I haven't seen so much RL politics on this board for... well, I forgot...

Anyway, back on topic:
Playing in a group consisting of 50% female players (not counting the DM) I can say I've got some experience on the topic.

One of our female players (and the only one who's roleplayed before, although in a different group) inisted on playing a male character. Why? Because in her experience female characters will get discriminated for sure.
Sexism like that has no place at my table, that's for sure.
[Btw, I never liked to old AD&D rule where male characters could have a strength of 18/00, while female characters were capped at 18/50. Wow, that's fun for female fighters...]

If gender-specific prestige classes are only viable for female characters that's a good thing. IMHO there's no pressing need for "male" prestige classes. So hey, everyone and his uncle is playing male characters already, why encourage that even further?
As gaming can be considered a form of escapism, I'd like to leave all luggage behind IRL. Sexism (and racism, for that matter) is such luggage.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I really think that the above characterisation of Rashemen society is way off the mark.

There are strictly-defined gender roles, that's true, but there's only one group of people who are really "oppressed" in any sense, and that's men with arcane spellcasting talent.

Such men have two choices: join the vremyonni, a secluded male-only society of magical artisans who devote their lives to item creation and teaching others in the service of the nation, or be exiled from Rashemen.

The Hathran may dominate Rashemen, but I wouldn't characterise their rule as oppressive, and definitely not as evil. It's absolutely a Lawful Neutral society, however, and a strict one at that.

Look to their neighbours in Thay for an example of real oppression.