Great white wyrm - DEAD

[The Sigil]

I didn't - someone posted it on the WotC boards a LONG time ago - when 3e first came out, I think... and IIRC, one of the WotC higher-ups (Sean Reynolds? Ryan Dancey? Can't recall) said something to the effect of, "I guess it's technically legal, but it's probably one of those things that will work exactly once per DM."

Kind of a "throwing sand in the face" tactic - it works once, but not so much after that - or warriors would carry around bags of sand instead of swords.

Still, for that one BBEG at the climax of a campaign, it's not a bad idea to "blow the wad" on abusive ideas. If not then, when?

--The Sigil

Come to think of it, there is the even more abusive alternate...

The Whirlwind Attack/Creeping Doom/Great Cleave alternate.

Step one: Position twinked rog10/ftr4 next to (flanked) dragon. Rog10/ftr4 has the Whirlwind Attack and Great Cleave Feats (5 Feats for char. level, 3 bonus fighter feats - takes Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack and Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave for 8 feats total).

Rog10/ftr4 BAB: +11 but with no WF, same total attack roll as earlier example of Rog13/Ftr1; has only 5d6 Sneak Attack damage. Also has Special Ability (take Crippling Strike).

Step two: Druid scroll to cast Creeping Doom. Put edge of swarm adjacent to fighter (so that the fighter has the Doom in two diagonally connected and one "edge"-connected square like so:

CD|
CD|(F)(DRAGON)(FLANKER)
CD|

Step three: Twink unleashes a Whirlwind Attack. Gets one shot at Dragon at highest BAB as part of WA. Also gets 187 shots on the swarm (1000 1-hp creatures in a 16-square area of which the twink gets a shot at 3 squares). On average, the twink connects on 178 of these shots, leading to 178 Great Cleave free attacks on Dragon.

Thus, sequence goes:

WA Attack on Dragon - WA Attack on Bug #1 - GC Attack on Dragon - WA Attack on Bug #2 - GC Attack on Dragon - WA Attack on Bug #3 - and so on.

Net result...

179 Attacks (1 from WA plus 178 from GC) on Dragon, each with a 55% hit chance.

Total number of hits (on average) 98.

Total Average Damage:
98d8(sword)+98d6(flaming)+1176 (Str)+490d6(Sneak Attack) for a neat total of:

3,675 points of damage ON AVERAGE WITH NO CRITICALS.

Oh, and don't forget 98 points of Strength Damage.

Even if the dragon can soak up 3,675 hp of damage, can it soak 98 points of Str Damage?

If it can soak up both, you were SOL anyway. :-b

For nastier variation, overlap 3 Creeping Doom Spells so that 7 of the 8 squares surrounding the character have Doom in them - the 8th of course is the dragon (may be impossible due to dragon face - you have to catch the dragon on a "corner"). Pull THAT one off and score a mere 415 attacks due to downed Doom Beetles.

I'll do the math for you: that's 8,575 hp on average (no crits) and 228 Strength damage. (recall that only 55% of your attacks hit - 228 is 55% of 415)

Even GODS don't soak up that kind of damage (esp. Str Damage).

How's THAT for abusive?

(EDIT: It's possible that this combo has been errata'd out of existence somehow, and most DMs who are aware of it have house rules against it, but still, it's VERY VERY VERY nasty if you can get away with it).

(EDIT 2: I also posted the "AoO twink" first because that seems SLIGHTLY more in the spirit of the rules - this one is patently ridiculous but "technically" legal).

--The Sigil

 

[Grog]

Str 27 (16 plus 5 from Bull's Strength plus 6 from Girdle of Giant Strength) for a +8 modifier

Those won't stack. But otherwise that's a very good (if abusive) tactic. Of course, the DM might Rule 0 it on the spot...

 

[The Sigil]

Those won't stack. But otherwise that's a very good (if abusive) tactic. Of course, the DM might Rule 0 it on the spot...

...and would be more than justified in doing so.

Good catch, BTW, but I'm sure anyone who really wants to will find ways to twink their strength, my gaffe notwithstanding.

If I'm a DM, I never Rule 0 on the spot - if you're clever enough to break the system, you get a cookie. You can get away with it once, but "never again." Rule 0 takes effect AFTER you try it, not BEFORE.

--The Sigil

 

[Celtavian]

Re

I actually just came up with an idea that should rock if you can set up in a protected area.

Have Shade make a wizard or sorcerer with alot of necromantic spells. Have him take Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration.

Then load him up with Enervations. Maybe have him buy a bunch of scrolls of Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer to keep getting enervations back.

Then start dropping enervation after enervation on the dragon. If he can get past the SR, its only a touch attack to hit. No save and it loses 1d4 negative levels. That would seriously weaken the dragon as you fought it. I believe it lasts for a reasonable period of time.

 

[Destil]

Ok... lots of people gave you tactics... now, here's a few tactics to watch out for from the dragon.

1. And this is cheesy, but I had a DM pull this on me last year... MAKE SURE IT'S A REAL WHITE DRAGON. And not an albino vierson of another color. And just before I died, the dragon said, "Who'd expect a red dragon in the arctic? Gets me all your treasure, doesn't it?" SWIPE.

http://adventurers.keenspace.com/d/0029.html

 

[EvilMountainDew]

Get a bunch of 'necklace of fireball's and rip off all of the beads and throw them at once

 

[LGodamus]

Vek dont worry....as far as great wyrms go Acessiwal is a punk......our 19th level sorceress killed him solo......

 

[Numion]

Vek dont worry....as far as great wyrms go Acessiwal is a punk......our 19th level sorceress killed him solo......

The problem with lesser dragons is that their caster level is puny compared to their CR. Thus spellcasters have easy time punching through their defences. Or did your sorc have some intresting tactic? Please share!

 

[Celtavian]

Re

A 19th prepared sorceress could practically solo the entire party that is going up against the dragon. At 19th level Kizzlorn and Vek could kill it all by themselves. I would like to see if a lvl 14 group can pull it off.

 

[Dursk Starkfire]

Wee Jas

If you REALLY want to be nasty, you could cast Quest on the dragon and force him to rebuild all of the towns. Come back in a few days when the dragon is crippled from refusing to follow the quest, and BAM, coup de grace.
(Course you have to get past his spell resistence, but that shouldn't be too big of a problem for a 14th level cleric
(Don't tell me you didn't take the Reach Spell feat... with all of the Harm spells you throw around!)

Dursk.