Greataxe, greatsword, and a little math

[GlassJaw]

In truth, a point here or there will rarely matter much. How often will a BBEG go down by 1-2 points. Not 3, not 4, but 1-2 points at such a point that him NOT going down will result in death or disability for a party member.

I think the same holds true when we say something is MAD and we are aghast that someone has a 16! in an ability instead of an 18 or 20 when they "should." Even with bounded accuracy, we often make much more of this stuff than is warranted.

I will take a d12 weapon at times because I like the d12 and the thrill of maybe rolling a 12. Its fun. Its chance and adventure.

There are some abilities which impact only one die of weapon damage and in these fringe racial/feat cases, I suppose a d12 is more attractive.

I am not suggesting a d4 is as good as a d12, but 2d6 vs. d12? (shrug)

Is there a big difference? No, I guess not. But where do you draw the line? By your philosophy, rules, numbers, mechanics, etc. should be hand-waved. "Meh, close enough, not that big of a deal."

As someone who's worked as a professional designer, it matters, even if the analysis only serves as a starting point or as a way to understand more about the system.

 

[Rossbert]

I am mostly on board with Warpiglet.

I start with what is my mini holding, then think which makes the most sense in my head, then I decide if I want the more satisfying die (d12) over more predictable damage.

Then all of that goes out the window based on what items drop in Adventurer's League.

 

[Warpiglet]

Is there a big difference? No, I guess not. But where do you draw the line? By your philosophy, rules, numbers, mechanics, etc. should be hand-waved. "Meh, close enough, not that big of a deal."

As someone who's worked as a professional designer, it matters, even if the analysis only serves as a starting point or as a way to understand more about the system.

Actually, I was pretty specific that 1 point does not matter much to ME and that larger numbers DO matter. We might have a different break point on what matters.

In particular, since this is a role playing game (and not merely comparison of quantities) I do think it is reasonable to consider the relative importance of small differences. Sometimes, as some suggest, the look of a greataxe will be more than enough incentive to go d12.

 

[jaelis]

There is no doubt that different people's sensitivity to small number changes will be different; I celebrate that diversity

As noted, a 0.5 hp difference bothers me more than I can rationally account for. A 1 hp difference is, I feel, a rational level of concern.

I am only confused on the occasions where someone seems to have inconsistent standards, like if they feel that the rapier is too good (but the shortsword fine), while that the difference between a GWF greatsword and greataxe is negligible. Not that I deny their right to an opinion, I just find it confusing.

(Also not accusing anyone on this thread of expressing that opinion, but I have seen it before.)

 

[Warpiglet]

There is no doubt that different people's sensitivity to small number changes will be different; I celebrate that diversity

As noted, a 0.5 hp difference bothers me more than I can rationally account for. A 1 hp difference is, I feel, a rational level of concern.

I am only confused on the occasions where someone seems to have inconsistent standards, like if they feel that the rapier is too good (but the shortsword fine), while that the difference between a GWF greatsword and greataxe is negligible. Not that I deny their right to an opinion, I just find it confusing.

(Also not accusing anyone on this thread of expressing that opinion, but I have seen it before.)

I like that you own your opinion! I do too!

Actually, I won't take a rapier because I do not like the image. Shortsword, warts and all for me, please.

Clearly, small discrepancies in numbers are more important to some. For me, image, which can be hand waved bu some of the numbers crowd is something I cannot overlook. And I agree, there is enough D&D and variety for everyone.

 

[Rossbert]

I like that you own your opinion! I do too!

Actually, I won't take a rapier because I do not like the image. Shortsword, warts and all for me, please.

Clearly, small discrepancies in numbers are more important to some. For me, image, which can be hand waved bu some of the numbers crowd is something I cannot overlook. And I agree, there is enough D&D and variety for everyone.

Off-topic I am still struggling with that decision on my bladesinger. I like two short swords (after I pick up warcaster) as he was a thief and a burglar, but I also like the snobbiness of a rapier (he has an elf and wizard superiority issue).

 

[jaelis]

Clearly, small discrepancies in numbers are more important to some. For me, image, which can be hand waved bu some of the numbers crowd is something I cannot overlook. And I agree, there is enough D&D and variety for everyone.

The nice thing is that image and mechanics are compatible, in that me implementing a perfectly balanced sword and axe should not hinder you from picking based on image.

Unless, and I am fully sensitive to this, my balancing mechanics complicate the system in a way that you find intrusive.

 

[jaelis]

Off-topic I am still struggling with that decision on my bladesinger. I like two short swords (after I pick up warcaster) as he was a thief and a burglar, but I also like the snobbiness of a rapier (he has an elf and wizard superiority issue).

Convince your DM to give you (or let you craft) a pair of short swords that can magically shift into a rapier and a dagger (during a short rest, say). Then you can adjust based on your mood

A bladesinger should hardly feel constrained by mundane issues like a fighter or rogue is.

 

[Warpiglet]

The nice thing is that image and mechanics are compatible, in that me implementing a perfectly balanced sword and axe should not hinder you from picking based on image.

Unless, and I am fully sensitive to this, my balancing mechanics complicate the system in a way that you find intrusive.

Honestly, it is a matter of some laziness for me. I even sort of like the weapon vs. armor class table of 1e AD&D which leads to more and not less differentiation (albeit of an additional variable). I just do not get enough out of implementing that to feel it is worth the effort which is similar to the current issue. However, I can understand some people find it important enough for the effort.

 

[FrogReaver]

There is no doubt that different people's sensitivity to small number changes will be different; I celebrate that diversity

As noted, a 0.5 hp difference bothers me more than I can rationally account for. A 1 hp difference is, I feel, a rational level of concern.

I am only confused on the occasions where someone seems to have inconsistent standards, like if they feel that the rapier is too good (but the shortsword fine), while that the difference between a GWF greatsword and greataxe is negligible. Not that I deny their right to an opinion, I just find it confusing.

(Also not accusing anyone on this thread of expressing that opinion, but I have seen it before.)

It's really not negligible. Make a probability table to see what your chances of doing at least 1 damage, at least 2 damage, etc is going to be. You'll notice the greatsword has a huge increase in many of the probability values compared with the great aze. In other words, it's going to amount to having to swing the weapon at the enemy an additional time

often enough to matter.​