Greataxe, greatsword, and a little math

[snickersnax]

When thinking about weapon damage I sometimes use an imaginary weapon comparison test:

I ask myself which of these two weapons would I rather get hit with?

This helps me decide which weapon should do more damage or if they should do the same.

So when I ask myself which weapon would I rather get hit with... whip or dagger. The answer is whip, by a lot. Then I look at the weapon chart and they are both a d4 and I think hmm this doesn't seem right.

As others have pointed out spear vs quarterstaff seems like an easy answer in favor of the spear doing more damage.

greataxe vs greatsword? tough one, but I think greataxe would be worse to get hit by (assuming both are used for slashing). Though I might prefer someone to swing a greataxe at me if I get a chance to dodge out of the way. I may have an opportunity to only get hit by the haft or more likely to get a complete miss due to the heavier, unwieldy nature of the axe balance.


When you start doing this it seems like it should be easy to make a weapon chart that is simple and has a good intuitive feel.

Modifying weapons for game balance seems much less interesting to me.

 

[5ekyu]

Is there a big difference? No, I guess not. But where do you draw the line? By your philosophy, rules, numbers, mechanics, etc. should be hand-waved. "Meh, close enough, not that big of a deal."

As someone who's worked as a professional designer, it matters, even if the analysis only serves as a starting point or as a way to understand more about the system.

Actually, there is a notion of false precision that does come into play. It also has equivalencies from many sciences.

Fretting over a half point or whole point when many variable or unpredictable factors skew results by multiple or double digit levels is false precision.

Well more important than that half point will be issues of availability (for quality items), vulnerabilities and resistances if types differ and a host of other factors.

Its kind of like timing your roast to the second in an oven with wide swings in thermostat.

 

[Tony Vargas]

greataxe vs greatsword? tough one, but I think greataxe would be worse to get hit by (assuming both are used for slashing). Though I might prefer someone to swing a greataxe at me if I get a chance to dodge out of the way. I may have an opportunity to only get hit by the haft or more likely to get a complete miss due to the heavier, unwieldy nature of the axe balance.


When you start doing this it seems like it should be easy to make a weapon chart that is simple and has a good intuitive feel.

Modifying weapons for game balance seems much less interesting to me.

The two can dovetail, though. Your example of greatax vs greatsword for instance, the latter's more likely to wound you, the former to produce more fearsome wounds when you fail to dodge or take the haft rather than the blade, maps pretty neatly to the 3.x versions of those weapons being 20/x3 & 18-20/x2, or the 4e high crit vs +3 prof - or the d12 vs 2d6 in both those eds and 5e...

 

[FrogReaver]

When thinking about weapon damage I sometimes use an imaginary weapon comparison test:

I ask myself which of these two weapons would I rather get hit with?

This helps me decide which weapon should do more damage or if they should do the same.

So when I ask myself which weapon would I rather get hit with... whip or dagger. The answer is whip, by a lot. Then I look at the weapon chart and they are both a d4 and I think hmm this doesn't seem right.

As others have pointed out spear vs quarterstaff seems like an easy answer in favor of the spear doing more damage.

greataxe vs greatsword? tough one, but I think greataxe would be worse to get hit by (assuming both are used for slashing). Though I might prefer someone to swing a greataxe at me if I get a chance to dodge out of the way. I may have an opportunity to only get hit by the haft or more likely to get a complete miss due to the heavier, unwieldy nature of the axe balance.


When you start doing this it seems like it should be easy to make a weapon chart that is simple and has a good intuitive feel.

Modifying weapons for game balance seems much less interesting to me.

But Damage is about HP LOSS not necessarily about which you would rather be hit with. HP doesn't necessarily equate to the amount of damage your flesh takes from a weapon

Let's not have the hp discussion here.

 

[snickersnax]

But Damage is about HP LOSS not necessarily about which you would rather be hit with. HP doesn't necessarily equate to the amount of damage your flesh takes from a weapon

Let's not have the hp discussion here.

I prefer my abstract hit point to have more meaning rather than less just like artwork of polar bears in snowstorms can be meaningless and boring.

 

[Warpiglet]

Since I am not a math whiz...

Is it not more likely that the greataxe does max damage?

1 in 12 for a greataxe? And 1 in 36 for a greatsword? What is the chance that the greatsword does max damage? Am I right?

 

[jaelis]

Since I am not a math whiz...

Is it not more likely that the greataxe does max damage?

1 in 12 for a greataxe? And 1 in 36 for a greatsword? What is the chance that the greatsword does max damage? Am I right?

Your numbers are exactly right. Of course, it is similarly more likely for a greataxe to do minimum damage, and further its minimum is lower. But that 3x bigger chance to score a 12 is what some people like about it.

 

[5ekyu]

Your numbers are exactly right. Of course, it is similarly more likely for a greataxe to do minimum damage, and further its minimum is lower. But that 3x bigger chance to score a 12 is what some people like about it.

The hitting max damage would matter a lot if the game had old school DR or low hp adversaries - cases that made high values far more productive and medium to low values trivial.

But for 5e default beyong the first couple of levels its accumulated damage over time.

So, yeah, while the swingy d12 swings wide more, that does not do much to benefit the attacker here - barring variants like armor as DR and the above "threshold" centered games.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

If you combine it with the frenzied attacker feat the chance of 12 rises to 1/6. If you are fighting enemies with 6-15 hp (assuming +3 damage bonus), the battleaxe is more likely to one-shot them.

 

[5ekyu]

If you combine it with the frenzied attacker feat the chance of 12 rises to 1/6. If you are fighting enemies with 6-15 hp (assuming +3 damage bonus), the battleaxe is more likely to one-shot them.

Yes, "reroll one die" type feats can serve the d12 better if max damage over average is needed. No argument there.

And yes, as stated, the cases where threshold for one strike matters swing it to.