Halberd, Longbow and Spiked Armor.

[Ysgarran]

I was reading in the dragon (Sage's Corner) that if a warrior has a reach weapon (such as halbard) and also has spiked armor that he threatens every square within 10'. In other words if someone did something to provoke an AoO 5' away, then that warrior could attack with his spiked armor.

What struck me as odd is that I've seen rulings about ranged weapons that work completely differently. In other words, if that same warrior had a bow in his hands, then he COULDN'T take that same attack of opportunity with the spiked armor.

Is there any dissonance here or is that the way things should work?

later,
Ysgarran.

Edit:
OK, Guisarme and not Halberd.

 

[Infiniti2000]

First, a halberd isn't a reach weapon. Second, if you rule that armor spikes threaten, then you could indeed take AoO with them whether you have a longspear or a longbow in your hands. But, you'd be doing it as an off-hand attack.

 

[werk]

SRD: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack.

Hmm, interesting.

 

[Infiniti2000]

SRD: You threaten all squares into which you can make a melee attack.

Hmm, interesting.

Unfortunately, that's incomplete. You can make a melee attack with a punch, but that doesn't mean you threaten with it. However, armor spikes do threaten because they are not unarmed attacks.

 

[Warehouse23]

Poking around the SRD...

First, yes, it is odd that a halberd is not a reach weapon (it is, afterall, a medieval canopener).

Second, with a reach weapon and spiked armor, a character would threaten all squares within 10' of him. That's a pretty neat trick.

An AoO against an adjacent sqaure would count as an "off hand" attack with a "light weapon," but could be made at a -4 penalty to hit. Frankly, unless someone had weapon specialization in armored spikes, I would not allow TWF to negate this penalty.

 

[the Jester]

An AoO against an adjacent sqaure would count as an "off hand" attack with a "light weapon," but could be made at a -4 penalty to hit. Frankly, unless someone had weapon specialization in armored spikes, I would not allow TWF to negate this penalty.

Why not?

Just curious.

 

[Ysgarran]

Poking around the SRD...
Second, with a reach weapon and spiked armor, a character would threaten all squares within 10' of him. That's a pretty neat trick.

Yes, it is a pretty neat trick. I'm not all that bothered by that part of it. I'm just not sure why the same rules would not apply to the guy with a bow and armor spikes. I could go back through the old sage advice columns and see what the reasoning was (if in fact, that is where I read that particular ruling).

 

[dcollins]

There was this entry in the 3.0 FAQ. It seems like the most recent Sage Advice contradicts it (edited for relevance):

Suppose Gruntharg the barbarian carries a longspear
and wears spiked gauntlets...
Now suppose Gruntharg has the longspear in both
hands when a spellcaster 5 feet away from him starts
casting a spell. The longspear does not threaten the
spellcaster because it’s a reach weapon and the spellcaster
is too close. Can Gruntharg just let go of the longspear and
smack the spellcaster with his spiked gauntlet? What kind
of action is it to let go of a two-handed weapon with only
one hand?

...The third example (smacking the spellcaster with the
gauntlet) is not possible as described. A spiked gauntlet is a
melee weapon, and Gruntharg threatens the area around him
with it, but only when he has that hand free. In the example,
Gruntharg is holding the longspear with that hand, not wielding
the gauntlet. He could indeed just let go of the longspear with
one hand; this maneuver is the equivalent of dropping the
weapon, even though he is still holding onto it with the other
hand. Dropping a weapon is a free action, but you can use free
actions only on your own turn. Gruntharg could shift the spear
to one hand as a free action at the end of his turn, leaving one
hand free to threaten the area around him with the spiked
gauntlet, but then he would not threaten any area with the
longspear.

 

[frankthedm]

That Sage advice is for the spiked gauntlet, not armor spikes.

I like the idea of using armor spikes for AoOs when your hands are not free. but by the Raw ONLY monks recieve this benefit

Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full...
Note this is NOT part of normal Improved Unarmed Strike

IMPROVED UNARMED STRIKE [GENERAL]
Benefit: You are considered to be armed even when unarmed —that is, you do not provoke attacks or opportunity from armed opponents when you attack them while unarmed. However, you still get an attack of opportunity against any opponent who makes an unarmed attack on you.
In addition, your unarmed strikes can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, at your option.
Normal: Without this feat, you are considered unarmed when attacking with an unarmed strike, and you can deal only nonlethal damage with such an attack.
Special: A monk automatically gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat at 1st level. She need not select it.
A fighter may select Improved Unarmed Strike as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Armor Spikes: You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a –4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can’t also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.)


I guess the system assumes humaniods only use thier primary hand for melee attacks, with only exeption being a monk.

 

[Thanee]

For what it's worth, in the spirit of the rules, you are using the whole round to attack with your weapon, say, the halberd guisarme. If you perform an AoO later during the turn, it is supposed to be part of your attack routine, therefore would have to be done with the weapon you are using.

So, unless you had made your attacks with the guisarme using the TWF penalties, you should not be allowed to use the armor spikes in the same round.

Of course, the other option would be to switch between styles, but that should at least be a free action (IMHO) and therefore only possible during ones own turn, i.e. you could attack with the guisarme and then switch to the armor spikes in order to threaten the 5 ft. range, but then you would not also threaten the 10 ft. range, since you can only have one primary weapon at a time.

I would say, that it is usually impossible, when wielding a guisarme, to also threaten the squares within 5 ft., Improved Unarmed Strike, spiked armor, or not.

The threatened area definition also kinda underlines this. You cannot make a melee attack within a 5 ft. range, while you attack with a guisarme, therefore you do not threaten these squares, while you do. If you attack with both, a guisarme and armor spikes, then you could do so, but you would have to accept appropriate penalties for using two weapons at a time for all your attacks for the whole round as usual.

Bye
Thanee