Help with magic/sneak attacking

[Pielorinho]

I'm sure I've seen this answer before, but I couldn't figure out where.

A wizard 5/rog1 flanks with the fighter, and casts Vampiric Touch. He does 2d6 points of damage from the spell, +1d6 points of negative energy sneak attack damage, right?

Does he gain 2d6 or 3d6 temporary hit points?

A related question: what spells do y'all find especially good for sneakattacking with? Are there particular ones I should be looking at?

Daniel

 

[mikebr99]

I'm sure I've seen this answer before, but I couldn't figure out where.

A wizard 5/rog1 flanks with the fighter, and casts Vampiric Touch. He does 2d6 points of damage from the spell, +1d6 points of negative energy sneak attack damage, right?

Does he gain 2d6 or 3d6 temporary hit points?

A related question: what spells do y'all find especially good for sneakattacking with? Are there particular ones I should be looking at?

Daniel

Hi there Pielorinho...
according to: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040217a

You are right with the above... 2d6 temp hps, and the target takes 3d6 negative energy damage. see below:

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A successful sneak attack with a weaponlike spell inflicts extra damage according to the attacker's sneak attack ability, and the extra damage dealt is the same type as the spell deals. For example, a 10th-level rogue who makes a successful sneak attack with a Melf's acid arrow spell inflicts 2d4 points of acid damage, plus an extra 5d6 points of acid damage from the sneak attack (note that continuing damage from this spell is not part of the sneak attack). Spells that inflict energy drains or ability damage deal extra negative energy damage in a sneak attack, not extra negative levels or ability damage. For example, a 10th-level rogue who makes a successful sneak attack with an enervation spell deals 1d4 negative levels plus an extra 5d6 points of negative energy damage.
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Mike​

 

[Doomhunter]

You would do 3d6 damage, but only gain 2d6. In my opinion. Dont have books with me to back me up, but I'm sure thats it.

 

[Pielorinho]

Thanks, guys! I agree that 2d6 temp HP makes more sense, but I'm not seeing a rules-reason for it. Mike, was there a particular part of that quote that you feel explains it? I think I'm just being dense.

Daniel

 

[mikebr99]

Thanks, guys! I agree that 2d6 temp HP makes more sense, but I'm not seeing a rules-reason for it. Mike, was there a particular part of that quote that you feel explains it? I think I'm just being dense.

Daniel

Probably the Enervation example... the spell does ability damage, but you also do extra negative energy hp damage from the sneak attack.

So, with vamp touch, the spell does 2d6 (which you get), then the sneak attack does a further 1d6 negative energy damage (which you don't get back).


Mike

 

[Pielorinho]

Okay, so you're saying that the sneak attack damage is counted separately from the spell's damage, is that right? The spell grants you temporary hit points equal to "the damage you deal." But the sneak-attack damage is not part of that damage, right?

I guess I can buy that: the spell damage is from sucking the person's soul out of their body or something, and the sneak-attack damage is from sucking it out through their nose, where its exit causes extra damage. You don't get extra soul-juice just because it hurt the person extra on its exit. Is that right?

Daniel

 

[UltimaGabe]

I guess I can buy that: the spell damage is from sucking the person's soul out of their body or something, and the sneak-attack damage is from sucking it out through their nose, where its exit causes extra damage. You don't get extra soul-juice just because it hurt the person extra on its exit. Is that right?

Daniel

Eh, I suppose. Another way to think of it is that you're hitting them with Negative Energy and sucking out their soul or whatever, like you said, every time you cast the spell. When you sneak attack them with it, you're simply hitting them in a more vulnerable spot- like their heart- so they're definitely going to be feeling more pain. However, they're not giving up more "soul-ness", necessarily, because how much "soul-ness" they give up doesn't depend on where you hit them. They've only got so much "soul-ness" to give, and where you hit them doesn't change that. Make sense?

Anyway, as for good spells to sneak attack with, I suggest Acid Splash. It's a 0-level spell that does 1d3 points of acid damage, and tons of Sneak Attack, if you've got it. But, more importantly, unlike a lot of other spells, it's not subject to Spell Resistance, and it's extremely cheap to get a wand or scroll of, since it's a 0-level spell.

 

[Pielorinho]

The only problem with acid splash is that it's a ranged attack, meaning you can't SA through flanking; otherwise it looks great.

Daniel

 

[Scion]

I think I would let the spell give you extra temp hp based on the sneak attack damage. The quote given above is not terribly useful in this circumstance anyway.

The spell itself says more along the lines of what I would use.

SRD:
You must succeed on a melee touch attack. Your touch deals 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d6). You gain temporary hit points equal to the damage you deal. However, you can’t gain more than the subject’s current hit points +10, which is enough to kill the subject. The temporary hit points disappear 1 hour later.


Emphasis mine. One could read that as being merely the spell damage itself, or both the spell damage plus outside effects (such as sneak attack).

As I cant really see anything horribly abusive with allowing the extra hp to be tacked on as well, along with it seeming to go with the wording of the spell anyway, then I'd let them both go on.

In your own vernacular, you found a soft spot that the soul was not quite as well protected on and was easier to suck out with your magical straw.

 

[Pielorinho]

Interesting take on it, Scion. Let me try some other questions:
-What happens if I critical on my attack? I inflict 4d6 points of damage; do I gain 4d6 points of temporary HP? I believe I do.
-How does this change if I maximize the spell? I'm guessing that I'd inflict 12 points of damage, plus 1d6 points of SA damage; if I critical, I inflict 24 points of damage, plus 1d6 points of SA damage. I'd gain 12 or 24 temp HP, respectively.

I think the difference between crit damage and SA damage, for spells, is that critting is always the same type of damage. Crit someone on a Chill Touch, and you inflict 2 points of Str damage instead of 1 point, right? SA damage, however, is always HP damage: basically, you seem to resolve the spell first, and then resolve SA damage separately, and ONLY as HP damage.

I'm going to be playing an arcane trickster/necromancer soon, and I wanna get these issues cleared up before I start .

Daniel