D&D 5E Homebrewed Warlord on a Rogue chassis

[dave2008]

Try this and if it persists, try the 'Get PDF' button at the top and tell me how it looks.

That solved it - thanks!

 

[Tony Vargas]

I wouldn't mind adding more limited ressources on top of the chassis, the same way the Rogue adds the Arcane Trickster on top. I just worry about the fiddliness of it all.

If you do build the requisite level of versatility into mostly-at-will abilities you'll probably see some complaints about both fiddliness and being somehow overpowered.
Just observations, but: The design space of the AT's "1/3rd" spellcasting is presumably comparable to that of the BM's maneuvers, and they're not adequate to represent even the 4e warlord, nor fulfill broader support duties. The Paladin is arguably an adequate second-string support class, with 1/2-casting, but also with dedicated support resource in Lay on Hands - and, also, probably the best example of at-will support in it's aura bonus to saves.

 

[Fenris-77]

He isn't just using the design space occupied by the 1/3 spellcasting though, it's the space filled by, essentially, everything except sneak attack. Expertise, cunning action, uncanny dodge etc etc,

 

[Tony Vargas]

He isn't just using the design space occupied by the 1/3 spellcasting though, it's the space filled by, essentially, everything except sneak attack. Expertise, cunning action, uncanny dodge etc etc,

Yep, it's the space filled by at-will vs resources, really, that's the class-as-template. Rogue is mostly-at-will, Cleric, for instance by contrast, is weak-at-will/some short-rest/heavy on the long rest, and makes an excellent support class that can, fairly easily, roll over into control/blasting and other-pillar utility.

 

[Undrave]

Yep, it's the space filled by at-will vs resources, really, that's the class-as-template. Rogue is mostly-at-will, Cleric, for instance by contrast, is weak-at-will/some short-rest/heavy on the long rest, and makes an excellent support class that can, fairly easily, roll over into control/blasting and other-pillar utility.

Honestly I find the Cleric to be a pretty awful support class. It's more of a controller who can roll into support from time to time, and most of that support is limited to HP gain.

But let's say I wanted to inject a short-rest ressources into my current build, what do you suggest?

Should I just make Insight Dice (and by extension Signals) into a type of copy of Superiority Dice and Maneuvers? With the advantage to them being they are used as a bonus actions? Keep shouts as at-will options and just ordinary attacks to fill the rest of the time?

 

[Tony Vargas]

Honestly I find the Cleric to be a pretty awful support class. It's more of a controller who can roll into support from time to time, and most of that support is limited to HP gain.

It can be played either way - or others. That's versatility. When the party doesn't need traditional support, it doesn't just sit on it's holy symbol.

But let's say I wanted to inject a short-rest ressources into my current build, what do you suggest?
Should I just make Insight Dice (and by extension Signals) into a type of copy of Superiority Dice and Maneuvers?

Using Maneuvers as a model would be consistent, there's a couple of support-ish ones.
At times, I've wondered about the idea of the Warlord triggering allies' resources, like HD, obviously, or Inspiration, or the like. It'd be complicated, because resources very more in terminology and mechanics (slots, slots, CS dice, slots, inspiration, slots, n/rest, slots, pools, slots, HD, slots, Inspiration Dice, slots, slots, and, in most cases, slots - also slots, or spell points if you're not using slots) than they do in availability & effect.

 

[Fenris-77]

I don't see an issue turning sneak attack dice into support dice. That math makes pretty linear sense to me. More challenging for this project is balancing the rest against a suite of short or long-rest resources. Personally, I think the monk's Ki makes a fine model for a SR limited resource that's closer to what you need here than the Superiority dice.

I don't think it's an impossible task, but I'm pretty sure that's where I'd get bogged down.

 

[Undrave]

Ya know, I had no problem with Martials having Encounter and Daily Powers in 4e, but, somehow, I feel like Superiority Dice stick out like a sore thumb in the general build and feel of 5e. Mechanics are, in general, a lot less dissociated from the narrative.

I don't see an issue turning sneak attack dice into support dice. That math makes pretty linear sense to me. More challenging for this project is balancing the rest against a suite of short or long-rest resources. Personally, I think the monk's Ki makes a fine model for a SR limited resource that's closer to what you need here than the Superiority dice.

I don't think it's an impossible task, but I'm pretty sure that's where I'd get bogged down.

The problem would be having both and confusing players with the sneak attack like support dice and the superiority dice. It's a lot of moving parts and I already feel like I'm stretching it as is...

I just really like they idea of generating your support ressource as the fight goes on... It's a bit like how the Barbarian has to maintain his rage by attacking constantly. It also feels more interesting since its a different style.

 

[Fenris-77]

I'm not advocating for two kinds of dice, that would be a nightmare. One kind of die and then a different mechanic is fine from a playability standpoint. I was just comparing Ki to Superiority dice as mechanics to fund limited use resources. I prefer points to dice because you can key more stuff off of one resource. There's more than one way to build the class though. You kind of have that worked in with the differing total die costs for different powers, so we're on the same page.

 

[Undrave]

I actually have a 'chosen one' subclass in mind that would essentially get to cause d20s around them to reroll a certain of time per rest.

I'm not advocating for two kinds of dice, that would be a nightmare. One kind of die and then a different mechanic is fine from a playability standpoint. I was just comparing Ki to Superiority dice as mechanics to fund limited use resources. I prefer points to dice because you can key more stuff off of one resource. There's more than one way to build the class though. You kind of have that worked in with the differing total die costs for different powers, so we're on the same page.

So both dice and a point system? hm...