D&D 5E Homebrewed Warlord on a Rogue chassis

[Fenris-77]

Or just a point system. Your system of multiple dice covers a lot of that ground already.

 

[Undrave]

I repaired the original link,but I'll keep the second one there as well, since they're now the same.

I think I'll try to come up with a subclass or two for THIS set up and then set about to make a second version with short rest ressources.

If I do so, I'll be keeping Shouts and Warlord Presence as they are now. They're a good basic frame to hang stuff on in the subclasses.

Really, the only thing I'd change are Insight Dice and Coded Signals (and related bits here or there), I'm pretty happy with the majority of the class.

 

[Undrave]

It can be played either way - or others. That's versatility. When the party doesn't need traditional support, it doesn't just sit on it's holy symbol.

Using Maneuvers as a model would be consistent, there's a couple of support-ish ones.
At times, I've wondered about the idea of the Warlord triggering allies' resources, like HD, obviously, or Inspiration, or the like. It'd be complicated, because resources very more in terminology and mechanics (slots, slots, CS dice, slots, inspiration, slots, n/rest, slots, pools, slots, HD, slots, Inspiration Dice, slots, slots, and, in most cases, slots - also slots, or spell points if you're not using slots) than they do in availability & effect.

So I still like the idea of 'generating' your ressource and I figured I could keep the same feel as long as you can't do the action to generate that ressource at will.

Imagine something like this:

Battlefield Insight

While in combat, by taking time to analyze a situation you can quickly suss out the weaknesses of various opponents, as well as imagine various plans of assault. You can then share this insight with your allies to make them more efficient.

On your turn, you can spend a bonus action to generate a number of Insight Point equal to the number of enemy creatures you can percieve plus your proficiency bonus. You keep any unused Insight Points until you no longer percieve any of the enemies that were present when you used this feature (either because they have left your field or they dropped to 0 hit points), you are incapacited, or by generating Insight Points again. Starting at first level, you can generate Insight Points twice and you regain all uses of this feature after a short or long rest.

When you inflict damage to a creature, you can apply any number of Insight Point you have to it. When you apply Insight Points to a creature, any points still on it are replaced by the new Insight. An ally who attacks a creature with Insight Points on it may choose to exploit the Insight. If they do so, they can expand one Insight Point to gain advantage on the attack. Insight Points applied to a creature disappear if the creature drops to 0 hit points, or if you are incapacitated.

It sounds a bit complicated but I think in practice it'd be pretty simple. Furthermore, it makes the boost to Perception and Insight you get later on worthwhile since, if you can spot them, they add to your Insight Point pool.

Then I just need to rework my Signals and throw an upgrade or two in the progression to let you do it three and then four times a rest.



Maybe the basic use of these points is too strong?

 

[Undrave]

Interesting. I can't imagine how you could make that work, especially as not all allies - the rogue you're basing it off of, and the Champion, for instance - do have such resources. But, I'll take a look at what you come up with, and playtest results'd be interesting, of course.

Here's a couple combo I thought of:

Use 'Hit a Nerve' signal on the Monk. On their turn they attack once, choose Constitution, then they attack again and spend two Ki points for a stunning strike! Since the target now has disadvantage on CON saves they fail and get stunned. Those Ki points could have been spent to no effect, but with your signals the stun worked and the opponent is crippled for a turn.

Furthermore: if Insight Dice can generate Advantage, then the Barbarian doesn't have to expose themselves with Reckless attack if they want to attack at Advantage, meaning they lose less HP.

Next, you can use MOVE! to get casters out of the fray without having them spend a slot on Misty Step or whatever. More effective with the Perceptive Presence, but still.

 

[TwoSix]

There's a lot of interesting stuff here, but I guess I have some confusion with the interaction between Insight Dice, Shouts, and Signals.

Basically, it seems like the general action economy is

Action: Attack. This generates Insight dice on the enemy (if hit).
Bonus Action: Signal (if Insight dice are present).
OR
Action: Shout. This does not generate Insight dice.
Bonus Action: Nothing.

I think that make sense, now that I've typed it out. Insight dice are slightly stronger sneak attack dice, balanced out by the inherent disadvantage of requiring your own hit plus an ally's hit. Extra Attack lets you transition into an attack + shout routine, if desired. I think I'd probably like to see a couple extra things, though, although I'm mulling the balance considerations.

1) At least 1 or 2 0 point signals, to give you something to do with your bonus action if you miss. Rogues are synonymous with deep action economy for their bonus action at an early level, and I think the Roguelord should have that as well.
2) Maybe not at tier 1, but the ability to generate Insight Dice on an ally when that ally is targeted with a shot. Add in some other (weaker) signals that are usable only with Insight Dice on an ally, but they do need to be weaker to compensate for the dice being 100% reliable. This makes a Tier 2 roguelord's action economy very malleable, depending on the results of his initial attack.

 

[Fenris-77]

I like the dice mechanic generally, but I feel like the current incarnation is somehow rough around the edges form a playability standpoint. I can't quite put my finger on exactly why though.

 

[Undrave]

There's a lot of interesting stuff here, but I guess I have some confusion with the interaction between Insight Dice, Shouts, and Signals.

Basically, it seems like the general action economy is

Action: Attack. This generates Insight dice on the enemy (if hit).
Bonus Action: Signal (if Insight dice are present).
OR
Action: Shout. This does not generate Insight dice.
Bonus Action: Nothing.

I think that make sense, now that I've typed it out. Insight dice are slightly stronger sneak attack dice, balanced out by the inherent disadvantage of requiring your own hit plus an ally's hit. Extra Attack lets you transition into an attack + shout routine, if desired. I think I'd probably like to see a couple extra things, though, although I'm mulling the balance considerations.

1) At least 1 or 2 0 point signals, to give you something to do with your bonus action if you miss. Rogues are synonymous with deep action economy for their bonus action at an early level, and I think the Roguelord should have that as well.
2) Maybe not at tier 1, but the ability to generate Insight Dice on an ally when that ally is targeted with a shot. Add in some other (weaker) signals that are usable only with Insight Dice on an ally, but they do need to be weaker to compensate for the dice being 100% reliable. This makes a Tier 2 roguelord's action economy very malleable, depending on the results of his initial attack.

0 Point Signals would be a good idea yeah. I really didn't think of what to do with bonus action when you use a shout before level 5.

As for a way to generate Insight Dice with a Shout, that was something I wanted to keep for a LazyLord friendly subclass that can Shout multiple times in a turn.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

0 Point Signals would be a good idea yeah. I really didn't think of what to do with bonus action when you use a shout before level 5.

As for a way to generate Insight Dice with a Shout, that was something I wanted to keep for a LazyLord friendly subclass that can Shout multiple times in a turn.

I really like this whole class.

between this, the marshal, and the variant fighter I just cooked up, I think we have very well started proving that a satisfying and balanced “warlord” can exist in 5e, with no reliance on a grid.

I really wish I had a day off soo to just hammer through afull draft of the marshal...

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

variant fighter I just cooked up

Care to share? You know I love the stuff you homebrew

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Care to share? You know I love the stuff you homebrew

Sure! It’s a rough draft, but it’s just variant features for the fighter. 5E - Best Chassis For A Warlord?

Simple, but I think quite effective.