Homophobic Elves

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S'mon said:


I generally disagree, I prefer the feminine endings, although "A Land In Turmoil Cried Out for a Hero - She Was Xena...!" doesn't particularly bug me.

The issue here is that Hero can imply male or female, while Heroine can only be female.

So, if they changed it to be "A Land In Turmoil Cried Out for a Heroine - She Was Xena...!" then one would wonder why the land wasn't interested in having a male hero, only a female.

They could try "A Land In Turmoil Cried Out for a Hero OR HEROINE - She Was Xena...!", but that would just sound terrible.

Whether hero implies male or either is dependant on the context, and this is true in other words that can imply a gender. For instance, can you imagine an ad for Hooters that wanted "waiters with big breasts"? :-)

In my conversations if I use the term hero it would be genderless unless the conversation implied men only - eg, if I said "heroes and heroines".

Duncan
 

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"Cultural" or "Natural" Predisposition

IMC sex and sexuality are seldom plot devices, my players feels a little uncomfortable with these kind of thing, maybe because they seems a little "mundane" (why bother with marriage or petty carnal desires when the realm has to be saved - again? :) )


But certainly Homo/bi sexual behaviors aren't matter of "cultural peculiarity", acceptance (or the lack of) is.

Not so recent (but very documentated) studies show that Homo and Bi sexual behaviors occurs with certain frequency in the animal realm.
These behaviors can be expression of dominance, but more often than not this is not the case: Lions, Dolphins, monkeys, apes, and a score of others species under study have surprised a lot of scientists (put the word "Bonobo" on Google for a fast example).

But l go astray ;)


Elves with a long life span and a more profound knowledge of inner-self probably generates cultures where acceptance of self is at premium and if you accept your inner self probably accept other's.
So I don't think that Elves are more prone to homosexuality than other races, probably they are more relaxed about this topic, they cultures doesn't socially "castrate" individuals which display different sexual behaviors or simply "experiment" (long life so much to experiment).
Elves will never have a word for "Sin" and without Sin there is no shame, no shame - no problems.

If - inversely - for the dwarves childbearing can be the greatest honor for a couple "blessed" by the gods of fertility. Intentionally renouncing to this opportunity (engaging in *exclusive* homosexual behavior) can be perceived as an offense to these gods (and to the community at large).
"If you renounce to a boon this like, you must be wrong"
Again natural propensity to homosexuality can be the same of other races but society restraints brand with shame the individual.
The individual become "wrong" on a cultural basis not on a natural basis. And prejudice arise.

Humans are by-the-books (of RpGs certainly) the race with more cultural color. In RW we had Greeks, Roman, Celts, Arabian cultures which recognized (or tolerated) homosexuality in a form or another.
It seems that male Celts, for examples, often considered sex with other men for pleasure, and sex with women strictly for procreation.
Christianity accepted sex only for procreative reasons (again to insure a future of prosperity for the community with children) and the relegated sex (in all forms) to a sinful thing.

Surely properly introducing sex (in all is forms) in a RpG, its a delicate affair, best handled by sensible hands. More often than not we can still have great games without.

I hope I haven't offended anyone, my skill in foreign language surely lack subtlety or political correctness (but heck I'm European ;) ). I only tried to contribute a little to this fine thread.
 

Great Umbrage said:
Traditionally, I believe that the idea of homosexuality was taboo in a medieval setting under heavy Catholic influence.

(note: I just want to point something out here, not intending to flame anyone or start a flame war)

I read an article last year about a researcher's findings into this. He decided to check out cemetries, and found that up to the mid-1800s same sex couples were being buried together in Catholic graveyards.

In other words, the priests recognised these same sex couples and allowed them to be bureid together on holy ground.

This seems contrary to the belief that the church has always been against homosexuality.

Duncan
 

If the Elves are homophobic, the Dwarves must go off in a rampage. Or at least Tolkeinian Dwarves, with that nasty 8 to 1 ratio.
 

Since there seems to be general agreement that the use of "hero" in the context used is gender-neutral, how about another possibly ambiguous citation from a WotC book:
Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, page 143
Elversult['s]....present ruler...Yanseldara (NG female human Ftr11/Sor8)....leaves law enforcement to her consort and adventuring companion, Vaerana Hawklyn (CG female human Rgr20).
(italics mine)

This caught my eye when I first read through the FRCS. It can certainly be read in more than one way -- consort meaning both "husband or wife, especially the spouse of a monarch" and "companion or partner."
 
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The Serge said:
The ironic thing is, I don't know too many straight women who fantasize or have a fascination with gay men.

Fascinatingly, the artists of the aforementioned "Yaoi" in Japan are all women, nearly to a one.

Additionally, the vast majority of "Slash fiction" writers (that is, writers of fiction that involves taking a pair of male characters from some other source - novels, TV shows, movies, etc. - and pairing them off sexually) are also women.
 

Khorod said:
If the Elves are homophobic, the Dwarves must go off in a rampage. Or at least Tolkeinian Dwarves, with that nasty 8 to 1 ratio.

Mythological dwarves are noted for lusting after human women, as noted by EGG in the 1e PHB. This could be because their culture demands heterosexuality but there just aren't enough dwarf females to go round? :)
Interestingly, RPG dwarves (including those IMC) seem to be exclusively Tolkien-derived and seem almost asexual! It's hard to imagine the typical LG Gimli-type D&D dwarf carrying off Arwen to his secret lair...
 

rackabello said:
Since there seems to be general agreement that the use of "hero" in the context used is gender-neutral, how about another possibly ambiguous citation from a WotC:


This caught my eye when I first read through the FRCS. It can certainly be read in more than one way -- consort meaning both "husband or wife, especially the spouse of a monarch" and "companion or partner."

Heh heh. I think consort has always had sexual connotations. In D&D it seems mostly used to mean 'live-in lover' - not officially wife/husband, but basically the spouse role.
 

SSS-Druid said:


Fascinatingly, the artists of the aforementioned "Yaoi" in Japan are all women, nearly to a one.

Additionally, the vast majority of "Slash fiction" writers (that is, writers of fiction that involves taking a pair of male characters from some other source - novels, TV shows, movies, etc. - and pairing them off sexually) are also women.

Yeah, in my experience women are at least as interested in fantasising about male-male homosexual relationships as men are about female-female. The main difference is that women are interested in the _relationship_ per se, men tend to fantasise about the actual sex. That said, I've seen very few homosexual PCs of either gender, the only one I can think of was Ilyana Sanchez, a 200-year-old Highlander Immortal female, played by my wife... :)
 

Homo-Hobbits

A friend of mine noticed the scene in the Fellowship of the Ring movie where the Hobbits are celebrating Bilbo's birthday and Frodo is insiting that Sam dance and pursue one of the female Hobbits -- something not found in the books so much. My friend's reply to that was it probably was included to act as a counterbalance to the homosexual overtones present in the friendship of Frodo and Sam later on.

It is interesting to me how different cultures deal with homosexuality. When I visited Papua New Guinea a few years back I saw men holding hands with men (females holding hands with females) all over the place --its what friends do. It took me some time to get used to this, I admit. However, homosexuality is generally frowned upon, and the men who are homosexuals in PNG leave their home village and all congregate togethe in one village (the didn't tell me the location of this place).

So perhaps Sam and Frodo are only Hobbit buds afterall...
 

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