Homophobic Elves

[Scarogoth]

Re: Homo-Hobbits

A friend of mine noticed the scene in the Fellowship of the Ring movie where the Hobbits are celebrating Bilbo's birthday and Frodo is insiting that Sam dance and pursue one of the female Hobbits -- something not found in the books so much. My friend's reply to that was it probably was included to act as a counterbalance to the homosexual overtones present in the friendship of Frodo and Sam later on.

I'm convinced that that young hobbitess (!) will turn out to be Rose, Sam's future wife, and this will just be a means of supplying "closure" when we finally get to the Grey Havens.

 

[rackabello]

Re: Homo-Hobbits

It is interesting to me how different cultures deal with homosexuality. When I visited Papua New Guinea a few years back I saw men holding hands with men (females holding hands with females) all over the place --its what friends do. It took me some time to get used to this, I admit. However, homosexuality is generally frowned upon, and the men who are homosexuals in PNG leave their home village and all congregate togethe in one village (the didn't tell me the location of this place).

However, in at least one tribal group in PNG, ritual homosexuality was a part of the initiation of young men into adulthood. There are several ethnographic studies of the group by Gilbert Herdt. (And I noted, in tracking down Herdt's name, that male homosexuality is illegal in PNG, so it may be political as well cultural pressure that leads to gay men's secrecy there.)

 

[Khorod]

It's hard to imagine the typical LG Gimli-type D&D dwarf carrying off Arwen to his secret lair...

I have a friend who is a biology-ish major, he insists that Dwarves are different enough from Elves and Humans that appreciating an Elf woman sexually would be deviant behavior. General aesthetic appreciation would be fine, but still a little uncommon.

 

[Katerek]

One thing I would like to throw in here is that by including sexuality and such topics doesn't make for an adult game. That I agree. It should be reserved for an adult audience.

Someone brought the point up earlier that the mere inclusion of adult based themes, sex/drugs/alcohol doesn't necessarily make a game an 'adult game'. That is true, what I intended was that merely it should be intended for an adult audience.

I wouldn't dream of ever approaching these themes int eh game that I play in with my buddy and our kids. That would just be wrong.

 

[The Blue Wizard]

It is interesting to me that the villans in older movies...you knew they were REALLY evil if they were homosexuals (the gross fat floating guy in Dune, the general in Sparticus, Rocky Horror, etc.) - playing on the culturally driven fear of the "abnormal" as horrific. There is a book coming out this fall by IVP entitled "How to Parent so the Your Child Does not become a Homosexual." In my D&D game the vilest of heros are usually (oddly enough) good 'ol heteros.

 

[Teflon Billy]

...I doubt WoTC would ever knowingly refer to homosexuality in a scenario, though, it seems a big taboo in the USA still, despite the best efforts of HBO...

I think they already did, in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting if memory serves. There is a female cleric who is the leader of some town, and mention is made of her female "Consort".

Now, I haven't checked dictionary.com or anything, but I don;t think there are too may alternate meanings for Consort are there?

 

[Xarlen]

That was quoted earlier in the Thread.

 

[Teflon Billy]

Yeah, I just noticed that. looks like Rackabello beat me to it

Apparently he even checked Dictionary.com or somrthing

 

[Coreyartus]

Default Fantasy Sexuality

What upsets me about the whole "homosexuality in gaming" issue is that by default, our society uses terms and situations that are inherently heterosexual as the norm. It's certainly okay for there to be a King and a Queen in every country, and no one jumps up and down and says, "Look, I don't want that sexuality thing in my game...". It's only when the other side of the coin comes in that suddenly things are considered to have a sexual content, and have an adult slant.

Can you imagine the hoopla it would cause if all the material in all RPG products actually acknowledged homosexuality by including it in their content by the statistical 10%? Or even if RPG content acknowledged sexuality as fluid? If every tenth module out there was about the adventurers saving the Prince so he can be married to the another Prince? I don't think it's gonna happen...

My point is, the fact that homosexuality is still an issue is kind of by the default mindset of simply regarding it as a non-issue. "It doesn't matter in my campaign, it isn't an issue." Well, then, if it isn't an issue, why isn't it there? Ignoring it does not make it a non-issue, it simply reinforces it's taboo quality, extending it's tendency to make people uncomfortable forever. The only way to make homosexaulity a non-issue is to acknowledge it and give it it's appropriate presence, and then let it go. Every minority group (be it race, creed, political party, religion, ...whatever!) has fought simply for the right to be acknowledged the same as everyone else, and once that's accomplished, there isn't anything left to fight for. It becomes the norm. Multi-culturalism is the norm. And you don't make things mult-cultural by ignoring the cultures.

--Coreyartus

 

[the Jester]

Re: Default Fantasy Sexuality

What upsets me about the whole "homosexuality in gaming" issue is that by default, our society uses terms and situations that are inherently heterosexual as the norm. It's certainly okay for there to be a King and a Queen in every country, and no one jumps up and down and says, "Look, I don't want that sexuality thing in my game...". It's only when the other side of the coin comes in that suddenly things are considered to have a sexual content, and have an adult slant.

Can you imagine the hoopla it would cause if all the material in all RPG products actually acknowledged homosexuality by including it in their content by the statistical 10%?

My point is, the fact that homosexuality is still an issue is kind of by the default mindset of simply regarding it as a non-issue. "It doesn't matter in my campaign, it isn't an issue." Well, then, if it isn't an issue, why isn't it there? Ignoring it does not make it a non-issue, it simply reinforces it's taboo quality, extending it's tendency to make people uncomfortable forever. The only way to make homosexaulity a non-issue is to acknowledge it and give it it's appropriate presence, and then let it go. --Coreyartus

>snipped a little out<

Well said!

I've played in many, many games where sexuality comes up; if you want to explore things like romance, illegitimate children (the king's bastard), arranged marriages, etc. it sorta has to, at least in a vague way. I've used less homosexuality-based plot devices, but they've been there. I don't think it's ever made anyone uncomfortable, but maybe I'm just fortunate to have had a lot of mature and open-minded players in my campaign.

I totally agree with you about the only way to make it a non-issue. It's a shame that the whole topic makes so many people so uncomfortable, but it will keep making people uncomfortable until we get over it. The best way to get over it is to acknowledge it.

Where's Angelsboi when you need him??