How Can You Politely Say, "Your Character Sucks?"

If having prime stat be at maximum was a requirement, than they should not only say that in the rulebook, they should hand out the stats they want us to run for each class. Otherwise, what was the point of rolling, or doing point buy, if you MUST have an 18 in your prime stat.

Middle Earth Role Playing did something along these lines. The stats were sort of-d100 based and you got to take the prime stat for your chosen class and put a 90 in it. So the rules actually recommended you put your worst roll in the prime stat knowing it would be replaced by the 90.
 

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I'm not bashing other forms of games. I also play WOW (and really enjoy it) which is why I'm so familiar with this type of thing. I'm bashing the kind of attitude that would give someone the nerve to try and dictate how someone else would create and run thier characters in any game.

Ok, fair enough. Sorry I misinterpreted you there. It's become so common for some folks to bash MMO players and Wow, and for comparisons to be meant as criticism, that I jumped to the wrong conclusion.

I remember back when 3.0 was new, unfavorable comparisons to Diablo were made, and I even recall a T-Shirt, "Save Gaming, kill a Magic player".

But your point is valid... Though not everyone, there certainly are many WoW players that are pompous jerks who belittle others based on their spec, even over some pretty minor things.
 

After reading this thread, I'm becoming more and more inclined to the idea that 5E should follow M&M 2E and HERO 6E's lead in removing stat modifiers from attack rolls and defenses.
 


I agree. Just too much rides on those primary stats.

What's wrong with that? 4e classes tend to focus on requiring 2 good stats, and you won't get very much out of the other 4 stats either. For most part, you can't really go wrong going 18 in your 2 key stats, then placing all future stat boosts in them.
 

When primary stats do everything for you... you really can stop giving bonuses for having them high... You can just put class requirements there and give an appropriate amount of bonus depending on the class...

oh I know, this was ADnD ;) although i must admit: our fighters always had 18 strength. ;)
 

After reading this thread, I'm becoming more and more inclined to the idea that 5E should follow M&M 2E and HERO 6E's lead in removing stat modifiers from attack rolls and defenses.
But of course the question might arise - what's the point of having all these stats then, if they never affect anything?

And if they keep affecting things, what happens now?

Maybe one way to "balance" stats better would be a mix of point buy system and attack/defense system that rewards all combinations of stats, but in different ways.

For example, at the moment, the cost for raising a 16 to an 18 is 7 points. 7 Points could get a 14 and 13 in some other stat. What does this give you? Probably about a +2 to +1 spread over two defenses. Compared to a +1 to attack and defense.
How do we value attacks vs defenses? I'd say we value it higher than a bonus to a defense. The +1 to attack helps you against _every_ monster you encounter, the +1 or +2 to a defense against _some_ monsters you encounter. So, let's set the multiplier at x3. A +1 bonus to attack is as much worth as a +1 bonus distributed over 3 defenses. So, the 18 is effectively worth as much as a +1 bonus to 4 defenses (since it also imrpoves one defense, not just attack)

So maybe at the moment, the price is simply too low?
Maybe the sensible cut-off point should be 16?

Of course, it doesn't really change things. Now someone might ask a newbie: "What, your Wizard has a INT of 20? That's wasteful! You'll be hit all the time! What good is your attack bonus if your stunned or dead?"
 

If a player's character truly sucks in combat and contributes nothing to the survival or success of the party, then perhaps the party should divide loot based on usefulness. Pirate's booty rules. The law of the wolf pack: the bottom wolf gets the scraps. <laugh>

Best roleplaying solution in this thread.

Being him new to D&D I would politely suggest to DM talk to him because, maybe, he's making a character he would hate in a couple of sessions.

Being him a D&D veteran I would wait and see how it unfolds. 14 is perfectly reasonable, while not optimal on 4E.

As for "min/max or die" arguments... we often run one shots with players deliberately not taking atributes over 16 or limiting max skills on GURPS for making things funnier or harder.
 
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