How Can You Politely Say, "Your Character Sucks?"

[GMforPowergamers]

In this case, if the charecter has int based powers, he will hit with and use them less, and it will be a little less fun to play.

wait needing a 10 against an equal level monster at level 1 is less fun then... what again...

did you even read that with a longsword he is still on par to hit.

The DM probably should have stepped in at chargen and said something. As noted above, you might want to go back to the DM and mention the issue.

Inless the DM unlike anyone here (myself, and the op included) knows more about what is going on...

again a swordmage with a 14 Int and a longsword has a +5 to hit Vs AC... (the pregen fighter that comes with it has a +6 to hit with fighter weapon talent added in...so it can't be that bad right?)

lets look through keep on the shadowfell (I both played in and ran in it so I know it well)

encounter 1 8 kobolds... 2 with 18 ACs (he needs 13s to hit) 5 with 15 ACs (he needs 10's to hit) and 3 with 13 ACs (he needs 8's to hit)

encounter 2 5 kobolds 4 with 18 ACs (13;s again) 1 with a 17 AC (he needs a 12), and 1 with a 15 (10)

lets do some quick avrages... that is 6 18's, 1 17, 6 15's, and 3 13's...

for an avrage AC of 15.8... we will round that up to 16, or needing an 11 aka 50/50 shot of hitting on avrage...
I will sblock the next 2 encounters in the book incase you don't want to be spoiled....
[sblock=on the off chance you don't know what is comeing]
outside the kobold layer are 13 kobolds... 11 with 15 AC, 1 with an 18, 1 with a 13 AC...

Inside we have 2 waves of monsters
wave 1 13 AC 15 Kobolds...

Wave 2 3 18;s (One is the BBEG called Irontooth) and 1 17 AC...
[/sblock]

what does that bring us too... well 30 AC 15's, 10 AC 18's, 4 AC 13's, and 2 AC 17's
what does that do to our average it lowers it slightly, but not enough to really matter... 15.56... so still round up to 16, witch means hit on 11, witch is roughly 50/50

But there is still the other road...

[sblock=what my PCs did (realspoilers you have been wanred)]
My PCs hit the buaral ground before the kobolds... so lets look at that (I am useing the orginal I belive there is a modfied one)

8 monsters... 4 with AC 14, 3 with AC 15, 1 with AC 16
[/sblock]

counting all of that as level 1 with no magic item drops at all it comes out to
4 AC 13
4 AC 14
33 AC 15
1 AC 16
2 AC 17
10 AC 18

54 monsters with an average AC of 15.666 or round up to 16. He has a +5 attack bonus with a 14 Int and a non magic longsword... witch hits roughly 50% of the time...

so is anyone going to try to argue when I show my math...

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I forgot one other thing...

[sblock=story spoiler] there is even a named magic item in the mod... and it is a longsword that your swordmage could pick up at 2nd level easy...and nothing has higher then the 18 AC before there infact alot more lower AC zombies show up.

I now want to play a 14 INt Swordmage up to the SIr Kegan encounter just to see what it would be like...[/sblock]

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

counting all of that as level 1 with no magic item drops at all it comes out to
4 AC 13
4 AC 14
33 AC 15
1 AC 16
2 AC 17
10 AC 18

54 monsters with an average AC of 15.666 or round up to 16. He has a +5 attack bonus with a 14 Int and a non magic longsword... witch hits roughly 50% of the time...

so is anyone going to try to argue when I show my math...

I'm not going to argue, just run the average total hits:

Pregen Fighter with +6 atk bonus = 31.25 average hits
Example Swordmage with +5 atk bonus = 28.55 average hits

Edit: Sorry, that number is based on # of monsters times the hit % (or number of average hit if each PC swung at each creature once).

 

[Janx]

I'm not going to argue, just run the average total hits:

Pregen Fighter with +6 atk bonus = 31.25 average hits
Example Swordmage with +5 atk bonus = 28.55 average hits

Edit: Sorry, that number is based on # of monsters times the hit % (or number of average hit if each PC swung at each creature once).

for a guy who's basically a multi-class fighter-mage, that looks reasonable.

Folks are quibbling over a 5% (+1) difference between PC builds. Seriously! You should have more variance than that between EACH fighter type in the party. Otherwise, they should have all just made copies of the same character sheet.

 

[ShadowDenizen]

I think the first step if for you to realize that his character doesn't suck. Nor do his choices in building the character. You simply have a different idea about optimization than he does. It's entirely possible he knows what he's doing! I would offer aid in case he doesn't know what he's doing, but you need to understand that not everyone is interested in having highly efficient and laser-focused characters.

This.

Those things are entirely dependent on what the DM's decisions are when he sits down to design the encounters in question.

And this.

Not only that, but IME, People oftentimes tend to get REALLY uptite when confronted with issues about their character, no matter HOW tactfully you phrase things. This can even happen with friends, let alone with people you play online with!

Not intending to be rude here to the OP who brought up an interesting topic, but, IMO, I don't see any reason for another player to be saying anything regarding stat/feat/skill assignments. Everyone has different ideas of what constitutes a "Good" and "Fun" character.

Rather, IF it becomes an issue in-game, then the DM should either take steps to mitigate that failing by adjusting encoutners so everyone has fun, or, if needed, talk to the player, and see what conclusion the two can reach together to ensure a good outcome.

 

[S'mon]

can someone please tell me where this idea that an 18=typical comes from? It isn't in any book, and it isn't what I have seen in LFR, heck bith lable 16 as avrage and typical...

4e Default Array highest stat is 16, +2 for racial mod = 18.

BTW when I use the charbuilder and click 'auto build' it usually gives me a 20 in my highest stat. Which I find works out very nicely in play. For most classes in 4e, spreading the points around is not worth it IME.

I no longer think of the stats as describing my PC, 1e-3e style. They're just there to modify die rolls. So a female Fighter can be STR 20 and still look like Angelina Jolie, the 20 just means she's very good at strength-related tasks like hacking people into small pieces.

 

[Kzach]

I no longer think of the stats as describing my PC, 1e-3e style. They're just there to modify die rolls. So a female Fighter can be STR 20 and still look like Angelina Jolie, the 20 just means she's very good at strength-related tasks like hacking people into small pieces.

This, times infinity plus one, no returns.

 

[Hellzon]

Seriously! You should have more variance than that between EACH fighter type in the party.

Why?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

4e Default Array highest stat is 16, +2 for racial mod = 18.

so an elvin swordmage has a 16 int at best
a dwarven fighter has a 16 str at best
a hafling wizard has a 16 Int at best
a half elf rouge has a 16 Dex at best

how do any of them get 18's... inless you are saying that each race can ONLY be less then 1/3 of the classes????

HECK eladrin warlord doesn't get a +2 str but they are great...

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I no longer think of the stats as describing my PC, 1e-3e style. They're just there to modify die rolls. So a female Fighter can be STR 20 and still look like Angelina Jolie, the 20 just means she's very good at strength-related tasks like hacking people into small pieces.

This, times infinity plus one, no returns.

by the way I felt this way back in 2e...all the way up. My str 9 half orc was built like lue ferigno... my str 17 elf was built like a speed skater... my femal bladesinger (and one of my all time fav characters) was a half elf fighter/wizard and she had 17 str, (can't remember dex) and a 17 Con to go with her 14 cha... and she was only 5'5 145lbs if I remember

Why?

becuse if all fighters have X Y and Z then how many fighters can you play before they all look alike? I like that I have played 4 or 5 warlords and none of them share weapons, or feats really... and they all kicked butt.