How does pulling old edition pdfs benefit WotC?

[ProfessorCirno]

And that would be an unethical thing to do.

According to your rule of ethics, certainly

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

It depends. Generally I agree that piracy is a bad thing, since it results in creative people not being compensated for their efforts.

But when the products in question aren't otherwise available, the argument that artists are being denied compensation via piracy pretty much goes away as I see it. What is left is the argument that breaking the law is inherently unethical. I think that's a harder argument to make.

 

[gamerprinter]

The only cost in offering PDFs is storage and download

The only cost in offering PDFs (especially the older versions) is online storage and download access costs. However, if placed in the same directory as other versions including 4e PDF products. The cost is negligeable almost nothing. Even before they pulled the PDFs, I am sure there was no older version's dept. that handled issues like rules within the older editions, nor are they expected to. So there is no other maintenance fee for hosting PDFs.

If you're not spending a dime on advertising previous editions PDFs, tracking it is tracking a sale only. A sale is money. Removing said products "because of cost issues" is a silly argument, there is no cost, not really.

From a business point of view, having 5 products in your store is sales inventory. Pulling one of those products does not improve sales, it just means there is less to buy - thus less profit. Taking 1e - 3e products off the sales table means less profit.

Your cost of hosting older editions have no legs to stand on - its a lose - lose situation. Players are unhappy and WotC makes less money, how is that ever a smart move. Its not.

GP

PS: regarding "its unethical to break the law" what about unethical laws they do exist as well. (I'm not condoning piracy however, I'd never do that, and I'd report you in a minute if I thought you did!)

 

[Mistwell]

According to your rule of ethics, certainly

It depends. Generally I agree that piracy is a bad thing, since it results in creative people not being compensated for their efforts.

But when the products in question aren't otherwise available, the argument that artists are being denied compensation via piracy pretty much goes away as I see it. What is left is the argument that breaking the law is inherently unethical. I think that's a harder argument to make.

I think you could make an argument about personally doing it. But the issue presented is him actively promoting such piracy. That's a different ethical issue, and I think a worse one than him just quietly doing it. I think it's pretty close to universally accepted that actively going around encouraging people to pirate stuff is unethical. In the very least, he is probably denying sales to the used market, which hurts some people trying to sell those books.

 

[Mistwell]

The only cost in offering PDFs (especially the older versions) is online storage and download access costs.

So nobody in accounting ever has to receive the money, enter it into records, balance it, deal with it in reports, etc? Nobody in marketing ever has to list it in products currently internally generating revenue? Nobody in tech support or customer service ever has to take a call on those products to tell that person they need to contact the distributor? No electricity needs to be supplied to those people? No office space needs to be rented for them? No janitorial service for them? They don't get paid? They have no benefits? There is no Human Resources support for them? No legal fees ever attached to them or those products?

Your perspective seems to be a common, and false, perspective. ALL sales of any kind, even through a distributor, involve overhead costs that are not just the technical costs of doing the PDF itself. This is one of the most basic issues that face any company of almost any size larger than a couple of people working out of their house.

If you're not spending a dime on advertising previous editions PDFs, tracking it is tracking a sale only. A sale is money. Removing said products "because of cost issues" is a silly argument, there is no cost, not really.

Only if you've never run a business and seen how much cost is involved with the overhead of selling any kind of product, even if it is just data.

Seriously, this is a very naive viewpoint you are expressing. I assure you, there are substantial overhead costs involved in selling some PDFs through a distributor versus selling no PDFs through a distributor, for a company the size of WOTC. It's not just a technical issue. There are a host of people behind the scenes who have to devote some portion of their time to supporting those sales, and that time costs a lot of money when you add in all the things that go into it. Saving that time means ultimately you can either employ fewer people and reduce some costs, or use those resources towards a more profitable product, or both.

From a business point of view, having 5 products in your store is sales inventory. Pulling one of those products does not improve sales, it just means there is less to buy - thus less profit. Taking 1e - 3e products off the sales table means less profit.

Unless it was selling at a loss, which I contend it was if you eliminate the savings in some combined overhead from also selling 4e PDFs.

PS: regarding "its unethical to break the law" what about unethical laws they do exist as well. (I'm not condoning piracy however, I'd never do that, and I'd report you in a minute if I thought you did!)

The way to deal with laws you do not like is to go through the system to change those laws. It's not to just ignore them, and it sure isn't to go around encouraging people to break them.

 

[Korgoth]

Older edition players are not only those that buy the PDFs, but the people in their gaming group.

Removing the PDFs may cause some of those older edition groups to break up. That would free those other people to migrate to 4E.

I don't see how that could work though (I'm not saying that's not they're reasoning... if "reasoning" is even the correct word): most people who play Old School think 4E is a pile of stink and would rather not game than play it. So the most they could do is drive some people out of the hobby.

Well, maybe they are trying to do that last thing.

 

[Mournblade94]

I think you could make an argument about personally doing it. But the issue presented is him actively promoting such piracy. That's a different ethical issue, and I think a worse one than him just quietly doing it. I think it's pretty close to universally accepted that actively going around encouraging people to pirate stuff is unethical. In the very least, he is probably denying sales to the used market, which hurts some people trying to sell those books.

I must remember how literal things are taken here at times.

I would not run around with torches as if I was sacking Port Royale.

If the only used market as you state is the WOTC DDI, then I really would not care about people pirating the material. If the used market is people just trying to sell PDF's, i would discourage anyone from pirating for the reasons you label above.

If WOTC is making the material available themselves but through no subscription of DDI I would happily BUY them, and encourage others to do so.

If WOTC's only outlet is the DDI I would be happy to aquire them without a DDI subscription.

I am sure if I am going to hell it is going to be for worse things than pirating a song here or there.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I don't see how that could work though (I'm not saying that's not they're reasoning... if "reasoning" is even the correct word): most people who play Old School think 4E is a pile of stink and would rather not game than play it. So the most they could do is drive some people out of the hobby.

Well, maybe they are trying to do that last thing.

I don't think WOTC is actively trying to force gamers out of the hobby, but thier decisions of late appear to support a very borg-like mentality of mandatory assimilation of D&D players into thier current product line. Rather than realize that the customer base is fragmented and attempt to offer more variety to capture the wider market, they seem to be trying to herd players toward the one size fits all product line. Perhaps they do have plans for different offerings, it might just take a while to get the wheels turning. A large corporate environment moves very slowly. In the meantime I don't see any reason for needless hate. Keep playing with whatever makes you happy and see how things turn out.

If WOTC decides to push only one offering then they will lose some customers, and may gain some new ones. The retro-clone movement is proof that if there is a desire for a type of product, then it will find its way to those that want it.

The bigger problem is that the rpg product format isn't the way to get the most money out of a popularly held IP such as D&D. Gamers want a stable set of rules with a constant stream of supplements which are optional and can be used with game as desired. This model is not the way to get the most money out of the IP. Planned rules/supplement/revise/repeat is the current model but that can't last much longer. Either the revisions aren't radical enough to warrant change in the eyes of the consumer or they go way too far and split the player base. Its the basic rpg distribution model that stands in the way of higher profits.

The DDI looks like an attempt to get joe gamer to accept online rules presentation as the default method to present game rules. 5E will probably be sold as packs of cards, minis, dice, and maps with the rules being subscription based. This leaves little to no printed text products to pirate and errata a snap because the online data can just be edited . The success of the pilot model (4E DDI) will determine the ultimate direction for the next edition.

 

[scruffygrognard]

I will NEVER follow a subscription model in order to play a game. I would consider subscribing for supplemental materials but, even then, I'd want hardcopies or downloadable content.

WotC looks to be moving further and further away from a business model that I could possibly support, which is a damn shame because I have plenty of disposable income!

 

[rkwoodard]

just easier?

Hi,

Is it a huge stretch to think that it went something like this?

Corp Man1: We have to pull the PDF of our books they are being pirated like crazy.

Corp Man2: How about all those old PDFs?

Corp Man2: Aw crap, you know what I have 10 reports I have to complete today, just pull them all.

No conspiracy, no cost analysis, just plain out It is easier to yank everything and figure something out later.

RK