D&D (2024) How many classes do you want to see this edition?

[Horwath]

4 classes only, with huge amount of subclasses:

1. Warrior;
d12 HD,
no spellcasting, possible 1/3 caster for some subclasses
extra attacks at levels 5, 11, 17 and 20

2. Gish;
d10 HD,
half caster
extra attacks at levels 5 and 17. Possible extra at level 11 with subclass.

3. "2/3 caster";
d8 HD,
2/3 caster,
extra attack at level 11 and 20. Possible extra at levels 5 or 17 with subclass.

4. mage
d6 HD
full caster,
extra attack at level 17. possible extra at levels 5 or 11 with subclass.


starting proficiencies for all classes:

pool 10pts:

skills: 1 to 5 skills. worth 1 to 5 pts
weapon proficiencies: simple 0 pts. Martial 2 pts
armor proficiency: none to heavy: 0 to 3 points
cantrips: 0 to 4 cantrips. 0 to 4 points.
saving throws:
dex, con or wis, worth 2 points. max one of those
str, int or cha, worth 1 point. max two of those
3 tools or languages, worth 1 point.

 

[Minigiant]

4 classes only, with huge amount of subclasses:

1. Warrior;
d12 HD,
no spellcasting, possible 1/3 caster for some subclasses
extra attacks at levels 5, 11, 17 and 20

2. Gish;
d10 HD,
half caster
extra attacks at levels 5 and 17. Possible extra at level 11 with subclass.

3. "2/3 caster";
d8 HD,
2/3 caster,
extra attack at level 11 and 20. Possible extra at levels 5 or 17 with subclass.

4. mage
d6 HD
full caster,
extra attack at level 17. possible extra at levels 5 or 11 with subclass.


starting proficiencies for all classes:

pool 10pts:

skills: 1 to 5 skills. worth 1 to 5 pts
weapon proficiencies: simple 0 pts. Martial 2 pts
armor proficiency: none to heavy: 0 to 3 points
cantrips: 0 to 4 cantrips. 0 to 4 points.
saving throws:
dex, con or wis, worth 2 points. max one of those
str, int or cha, worth 1 point. max two of those
3 tools or languages, worth 1 point.

-1 HP a level and -1 attacks at levels I likely won't reach for 1/2 casting sounds like a great trade.

A big thing that Feat using Editions taught me is armor and weapon proficiency and extra attacks don't mean much if you hand them out as feats or don't scale weapon power to a "hard to game" attribute.

It's why "3-4 class" D&D clones rarely get big. They only succeed with the subset of gamers who don't optimize even by accident and typically play D&D for the struggle.

---
Also if expert/skill monkey is a category of class and it too can be split into 1/2 and 2/3 then that's 9 classes for a point but class system..

Warrior/Expert/Priest/Mage is 18 classes.

If you go Warrior/Expert/Divine/Primal/Arcane, that's 25 classes right?

 

[cbwjm]

How about this: sorcerer becomes the default caster class, but there is a subclass for "bookish wizard" types who gets a spell book and more spell choices. They can even get metamagic!

I think it would be better to merge wizard, sorcerer, and warlock into 1 and you decide at the beginning how you learned you magic, by book, by blood, or by pact. Pretty sure I've seen this in at least 1 5e/OSR-like game. Then all the subclasses become something like, studied under a dragon, have dragon blood, made a Pact with a dragon.

 

[Yaarel]

I think it would be better to merge wizard, sorcerer, and warlock into 1 and you decide at the beginning how you learned you magic, by book, by blood, or by pact. Pretty sure I've seen this in at least 1 5e/OSR-like game. Then all the subclasses become something like, studied under a dragon, have dragon blood, made a Pact with a dragon.

Heh, want to see the Wizard split up into separate classes!

But yeah, Sorcerer and Warlock are too similar thematically. I would like to see the Sorcerer and Warlock merge.

The "metamagic" of the current Sorcerer can become "Mage Feats".



Both the Warlock and Sorcerer essentially make a "pact" that imbues the body with magic. Typically, in the case of the Sorcerer, it is an ancestor who made a pact with a dragon, and now the Sorcerer has inherited the bodily magic and now learns to exercise its potential. But it is also possible for the Sorcerer character to have made a pact with a dragon personally to transform ones body. Likewise, while the Warlock often establish the pact personally, it too can inherent an ancestral pact from generations ago.

Both the Sorcerer and Warlock are like living wands, a magical equivalent of a cyborg.

 

[Remathilis]

I think it would be better to merge wizard, sorcerer, and warlock into 1 and you decide at the beginning how you learned you magic, by book, by blood, or by pact. Pretty sure I've seen this in at least 1 5e/OSR-like game. Then all the subclasses become something like, studied under a dragon, have dragon blood, made a Pact with a dragon.

It was tried during the 5e playtest; though to be fair we never saw the spontaneous caster version of the 5e "mage" class, just the book/prep caster.

 

[Minigiant]

But yeah, Sorcerer and Warlock are too similar thematically. I would like to see the Sorcerer and Warlock merge.

The Sorcerer and the Warlock are only similar thematically and mechanically because the designers of certain "gaming generations" who don't explore theme differences much or are swayed heavily by those of those groups.

The fact that the Sorcerer has few exclusive spells points that D&D designers since the Sorcerer's creation in 3e, don't get the Sorcerer, and wont try hard to get it unless forced (ie 4e PHB, experimental DNDN playtest).

We will see what happens when Mages hit playtest. The sorcerer will very likely see heavy experimentation. The wuestion is if the experiment continues past the first showing.

 

[tetrasodium]

The Sorcerer and the Warlock are only similar thematically and mechanically because the designers of certain "gaming generations" who don't explore theme differences much or are swayed heavily by those of those groups.

The fact that the Sorcerer has few exclusive spells points that D&D designers since the Sorcerer's creation in 3e, don't get the Sorcerer, and wont try hard to get it unless forced (ie 4e PHB, experimental DNDN playtest).

We will see what happens when Mages hit playtest. The sorcerer will very likely see heavy experimentation. The wuestion is if the experiment continues past the first showing.

There were some efforts to explore it in 3.5 but 5e doesn't provide sorcerer the designspace. In 3.5 unearthed arcana (it was a book then not what it is now) there was a "Battle sorcerer" variant sorcerer

Spoiler: Battle Sorcerer variant had this...

• Hit Die:d4→d8
• Class Skills: Remove Bluff add intimidate
• Weapons & armor prof: simple weapons & no armor → any light or one handed martial weapon of the player's choice & light armor
• Spellcasting: Can cast in light armor with no chance of ASF but spell slots are reduced by one spell per day from each spell level(min zero)
  • At the time chain shirt was considered light armor

It made for a pretty decent sorcerer based gish that was even more different from the 3.5 wizard than the 3.5 sorcerer already was. IIRC there was also a bunch of draconic sorcerer PrC?+feats in complete arcane races of dragon or something too but I don't remember much about them.

Putting both casters on the same spontaneous casting wasn't the only change in 3.5→5e though, no longer getting int mod to skill points having skills combined & bounded accuracy making ok & untrained good enough in 5e also cut into what was a wizard strength at the time.

 

[cbwjm]

It made for a pretty decent sorcerer based gish that was even more different from the 3.5 wizard than the 3.5 sorcerer already was. IIRC there was also a bunch of draconic sorcerer PrC?+feats in complete arcane races of dragon or something too but I don't remember much about them.

From memory, they came up with a bunch of sorcerer only feats that explored their bloodline, some of which gained more power the more feats you had (like a draconic feat might grant you additional hit points for each draconic feat you chose. I remember there being dragon and fey bloodline feats, I wouldn't be surprised if there were most of the planar races with celestial and fiendish feats that could be chosen instead. I'd have to hunt down the 3e books to confirm though.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I’m fine with wizard sorcerer warlock all existing and i think they all have their own unique spin on things, the only thing I would say is that sorcerer really needed their metamagic capacity boosted, like an extra MM known and free application of MM to cantrips rather than requiring sorcery points on them.

The lore differences between the three IMO could be analogised as such:
—The wizard went to a fancy formal cooking school, they know the core techniques required how to cook lots of different types of meal but don’t have the recipes memorised as well as they could do and as such must refer to the cookbook when cooking and can’t deviate from the recipe,
—The sorcerer learnt cooking from a close relative who owned a cafe or small restaurant, they don’t know as many techniques or recipes but the ones they do know they’ve got down off by heart and can even tweak the recipe on the fly for different variations when required,
—Finally the warlock, the warlock doesn’t really know how to cook, they’re close friends and have an agreement with the owner of the megamart or take-out place across the way and have a super special deal for all the frozen readymeals or fried chicken they could want, yes maybe they’ve learned a few things for themselves along the way but for the most part but all the food is coming from someone else.

 

[Marandahir]

Mu.

This IS 5e, so the classes should be the same as 5e, by virtue of logic.