D&D (2024) I have the DMG. AMA!

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Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Continuing to argue a point even after I’ve identified that we don’t agree, have a different perspective on the game, and that there are other forums for you to discuss your preferred playstyle is badgering. It takes two to tango.
Fair enough. We've both said our piece I think.
 

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overgeeked

B/X Known World
I feel like people keep getting lost in the idea that players have no recourse to bad DMing and as such need rules to protect them. But we always forget that bad DMs have nothing forcing adherence to the rules, and good DMs aren't anti-socials monkey brains out to "get" their players. As such those rules meant to protect PCs are toothless wastes of paper and ink. They are nothing more than guidance that some will believe in until a DM says "no" in response to a hopeful player citing the rule.

I don't see this as anything more than WotC flailing around because they fundementally misunderstand how social the game is. Jerks don't care about a line in the DMG, and non-jerks don't act in ways that require that line. So I don't know that this "rule" does anything but give false hope to players in poorly run games.

The advice should be "if your DM does this without prior a conversation on it, you should leave that game" and it should be in the PHB under a "social contract" chapter. But maybe that is a hot take.
Exactly. Likewise a line in the DMG about booting toxic players. I haven’t read the whole PHB. Is there a social contract chapter or section? Does it repeat the advice for players found in the DMG?
 

Queer Venger

Dungeon Master is my Daddy
Do you think these are the most beautiful DMGs you've seen??

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TravDoc42

Getting a hang of this!
The scroll of titan summoning looks really cool! Excited to see more about what critters it summons, especially the "animal lord".
 

ad_hoc

(she/her)
Do you think these are the most beautiful DMGs you've seen??

View attachment 384577View attachment 384578

For the covers I think the regular edition is fine but the collector's covers are really nice.

On the inside I think they are the nicest I have seen. The print quality and amount of art is very good.

The 2014 had a style to make them look like weathered pages and, while cool, ended up just making them kind of dreary to read.
 


Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Supporter
Well, that’s a house rule then. If alignment shifts based on actions (that’s good), and divine magic is permanent (that’s stupid), then you can have a lawful evil cleric of Bahamut…which makes zero sense.

“Yes, Bahamut gave me this power decades ago, and it’s mine now forever and he can’t take it back, so I use Bahamut’s gift to undermine worship of Bahamut and there’s nothing the god who gave me this power can do about it. Ha ha ha.”

This is why we need to go back to the 1e days of Gygaxian Alignmnent Policing & Consequences.

Law & Order: Alignment Shifting Unit

Sgt. Gygax: It is of utmost importance to keep rigid control of alignment behavior with respect to such characters as serve deities who will accept only certain alignments, those who are paladins, those with evil familiars, and so on. Part of the role they have accepted requires a set behavior mode, and its benefits are balanced by this. Therefore, failure to demand strict adherence to alignment behavior is to allow a game abuse.

Det. McNulty: Got it Sarge. So what do I do when I catch one of them miscreants doin' that game abuse? Throw 'em in the pokey?

Sgt. Gygax: No. Drain a level. If they are a cleric, punish them severely. If they move out of the required alignment for their class, take their class. Suck it, druid. But that's not why we're here. Internal Affairs just gave me the graph of your alignment, McNulty. And you've ... drifted. Time to pay up!

Det. McNulty: What the eff did I do? Also, I want my union rep.
 

DinoInDisguise

A russian spy disguised as a t-rex.
Exactly. Likewise a line in the DMG about booting toxic players. I haven’t read the whole PHB. Is there a social contract chapter or section? Does it repeat the advice for players found in the DMG?

To the best of my knowledge no such section is in the PHB, but I do not own a copy nor have I read one. That is just where I felt the advice belonged.

I agree 100% that DMs need a section on table management, including a bit on booting toxic players. I've been very outspoken on this issue in other threads. I truly believe most problems experienced in this game are social. The number of times I see what seems like an obvious social issue cited as a mechanical failing is kind of wild.
 

TwoSix

Master of the One True Way
This is why we need to go back to the 1e days of Gygaxian Alignmnent Policing & Consequences.

Law & Order: Alignment Shifting Unit

Sgt. Gygax: It is of utmost importance to keep rigid control of alignment behavior with respect to such characters as serve deities who will accept only certain alignments, those who are paladins, those with evil familiars, and so on. Part of the role they have accepted requires a set behavior mode, and its benefits are balanced by this. Therefore, failure to demand strict adherence to alignment behavior is to allow a game abuse.

Det. McNulty: Got it Sarge. So what do I do when I catch one of them miscreants doin' that game abuse? Throw 'em in the pokey?

Sgt. Gygax: No. Drain a level. If they are a cleric, punish them severely. If they move out of the required alignment for their class, take their class. Suck it, druid. But that's not why we're here. Internal Affairs just gave me the graph of your alignment, McNulty. And you've ... drifted. Time to pay up!

Det. McNulty: What the eff did I do? Also, I want my union rep.
"In the cosmological balance system, alignment based offenses are considered especially heinous. In Greyhawk City, the dedicated wizards who investigate these unbalanced characters are members of an elite squad known as the Alignment Shifting Unit. These are their stories."

DUN DUN!
 

Belen

Hero
To the best of my knowledge no such section is in the PHB, but I do not own a copy nor have I read one. That is just where I felt the advice belonged.

I agree 100% that DMs need a section on table management, including a bit on booting toxic players. I've been very outspoken on this issue in other threads. I truly believe most problems experienced in this game are social. The number of times I see what seems like an obvious social issue cited as a mechanical failing is kind of wild.
Agreed!

Although this may kill half the conversations on ENWorld where people demand hard rules limits on DM power.

There is always a social contract and most of the egregious example here are from people breaking it rather than a need for more rules.
 

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