D&D 5E Idea a Redemption Mod for Infernal Warmachines in BG: DiA

[Henadic Theologian]

Okay so the whole using soul coins to power Infernal Warmachines it creeper the crap out of me and that is not easy as I have an extremely dark and twisted imagination, because once I made the connection between damned innocent children in Waterdeep: Dragonheist and Soul Coins, the idea of tossing what could be the soul of some 5 year old child who wants their teddy bear into a Unholy furnace that slowly and agonizing burns their soul to obvilion makes me want to puke. Give me Ravenlofts Mummies, serial killers, vampires, werewolves, ghosts, fiends, hags, Skull Lords, cannibals, and twisted perverts over that any day of the weak.

So inspired by Lucifer the TV show I came with the idea of a Redemption mod for Infernal Warmachines, instead of being fueled by burning up soul coins, they are modified by redeeming the soul in the soul coin via spark of holy light.

See the idea is you get the mod by casting Hollow in the Furnance which redeems that Warmachine, replacing the furnace, with a divine radiance power core, which burns away the sin on a soul, not the soul itself until its clean and released to the Celestial afterlife of the God that the Divine Radiant Power Core was dedicated to.

You could even have mods that draw upon the Divine Radiant Power Core Mod, like a Halo Weapon that blasts attackers that ram you Redeemed Warmachine, and an Aura of Peace that has a chance of charming attackers, and Holy Water Canon that blasts enemies at range with holy water.

Thoughts?

 

[Hawk Diesel]

It's interesting, but I think the purpose of the soul coin furnace is to force the players to make choices that test their morality. Are they willing to burn away a few souls to save the city, or will they take the harder route because the ends do not justify the means? It also seems like magic like Hallow wouldn't function as effectively because of how corrupted the entire plane is. And then there's the question whether burning away one's sins produces any energy that could power a warmachine, or if it can if the replacement fuel is sufficient.

And then there are other questions, like can sin just be burned away? If you had a coin that contained the soul of a mass murderer, is redemption in this way even possible? Can sin be burned away without intention or effort by the sinner? It raises a lot more philosophical questions regarding the concept of redemption and sin.

Not saying your idea isn't sound or couldn't work. I mean it's your game after all, and you should make up whatever rules makes the game enjoyable. But I think considering these implications and finding ways of addressing them in your game will make the concept stronger and enhance the efforts available to the players to keep them on the side of good.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

It's interesting, but I think the purpose of the soul coin furnace is to force the players to make choices that test their morality. Are they willing to burn away a few souls to save the city, or will they take the harder route because the ends do not justify the means? It also seems like magic like Hallow wouldn't function as effectively because of how corrupted the entire plane is. And then there's the question whether burning away one's sins produces any energy that could power a warmachine, or if it can if the replacement fuel is sufficient.

And then there are other questions, like can sin just be burned away? If you had a coin that contained the soul of a mass murderer, is redemption in this way even possible? Can sin be burned away without intention or effort by the sinner? It raises a lot more philosophical questions regarding the concept of redemption and sin.

Not saying your idea isn't sound or couldn't work. I mean it's your game after all, and you should make up whatever rules makes the game enjoyable. But I think considering these implications and finding ways of addressing them in your game will make the concept stronger and enhance the efforts available to the players to keep them on the side of good.

Honestly it's a Forgotten Realms game and if I wanted to be rail roaded into evil, I'd play Ravenloft.

I get the basic idea of the moral dilemma, it just that of you play good then you lost out on the most fun part of the Avernus experience which makes the game unfun.

As for how does it burn off sin, it creates dreams in the soul where the soul deals with its issues, with each sin dealt with thus way releasing holy energy.

 

[Blue]

After the first time we used it - and found out what it did - we were so utterly repulsed we never used it again. We downplayed an entire aspect of the adventure because it was too horrific for the players, until the DM just started giving us the regeneration and boosts without soul coins realizing it was a step to far. That we'd made our morale choice, and he descided that he didn't want to penalize our fun for that choice.

But this - this is an even better solution. It's the characters taking control of that and turning it. We had no cleric, and I'm not sure if we would have thought of this even if we had, but it is elegant and redemptive of not just the souls in the coins, but those who would feed them into the Infernal Celestial War Machine.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I'd make it possible to have redeemed warmachines, but the engine must first be bound to the spirit of a willing redeemed fiend...which is hard to find.

Or, create a market where they sell ''clean energy'', meaning they only sell the soul coins of the wort, unforgivable sinners, verified by Zone of Truth or Speak with Dead, giving you a better fuel efficiency; you only consume 1 soul coins per 1000 miles!

 

[Henadic Theologian]

After the first time we used it - and found out what it did - we were so utterly repulsed we never used it again. We downplayed an entire aspect of the adventure because it was too horrific for the players, until the DM just started giving us the regeneration and boosts without soul coins realizing it was a step to far.

But this - this is an even better solution. It's the characters taking control of that and turning it. We had no cleric, and I'm not sure if we would have thought of this even if we had, but it is elegant and redemptive of not just the souls in the coins, but those who would feed them into the Infernal Celestial War Machine.

Exactly. The Warmachines are too cool an idea to lose to a moral dilemma.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

I'd make it possible to have redeemed warmachines, but the engine must first be bound to the spirit of a willing redeemed fiend...which is hard to find.

Or, create a market where they sell ''clean energy'', meaning they only sell the soul coins of the wort, unforgivable sinners, verified by Zone of Truth or Speak with Dead, giving you a better fuel efficiency; you only consume 1 soul coins per 1000 miles!

Yes! I think this would make way more sense. Rather than burning away the sins of the damned, the warmachine is bound with a willing soul similar to the elemental ships in Eberron. It gives the soul a chance to be redeemed through their actions and willingness to help the party. I think this and may use it in the Descent into Avernus game I'm running.

 

[Blue]

Exactly. The Warmachines are too cool an idea to lose to a moral dilemma.

It's like "Here is this tough morale quandry. What, you decided to be good and upstanding? Well, we're going to punish you for it until you give in."

Yes, I get ratchetting up the tension to slip and do bad, but to take what is such a unique and fun part of that adventure and turn it off for doing the right thing is not the play I want to engender.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Honestly it's a Forgotten Realms game and if I wanted to be rail roaded into evil, I'd play Ravenloft.

I get the basic idea of the moral dilemma, it just that of you play good then you lost out on the most fun part of the Avernus experience which makes the game unfun.

As for how does it burn off sin, it creates dreams in the soul where the soul deals with its issues, with each sin dealt with thus way releasing holy energy.

I love that.

 

[Lyxen]

Honestly, you are playing in Hell, and if you don't play the corruption of hell on good souls, you are missing out on a lot of possibilities. The overall adventure is full of it, between infernal weapons, soul coins, all the devils wanting to offer you contract. Playing good in Hell should be a challenge, you should have to make tough choices, and it does not mean that you cannot be redeemed, as it is in a sense the crux of the whole adventure.

Moreover, the souls in the coins are evil, like all the souls which are drawn to hell anyway. I don't think that the upper planes would offer these souls a redemption by doing nothing, nor do I think that they have any cosmic right to do so. Remember that Asmodeus has been given the right to tempt people to evil so that he can field armies in the blood war and contain the forces of the Abyss. And finally, on this point, do you think the evil soul would accept redemption if it was forced on them ? Some might seize it as an opportunity not to be destroyed, but having done nothing to be redeemed, they would still be evil.

Also, don't you think that a Celestial Engine would draw evil creatures to you in an instant ? This is their plane after all, and even Zariel failed to invade it.

As for not punishing the characters for being good, there are other ways to do this, in particular through allies and other opportunities. In our game, there is in particular Burney at the Emporium, and a link to the Infinite Staircase and less evil partnerships. And the more evil characters in the group have restricted access to this.