D&D 5E Idea for Int

[TheCosmicKid]

Yes, that is a similar issue which also exists. Both Intelligence and Charisma suffer from the problem that they give very little to any class that isn't based around it, where every other stat has something that you'll really miss if you dump it. Even Strength lets you carry more stuff.

When I dump Charisma, I really miss having friends and allies.

When I dump Intelligence, I really miss knowing what's going on.

But hey, at least I can carry another ten pounds of loot!

 

[Zardnaar]

Doing that for languages and tools would be fine, I think.

I allow this for languages.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yes, that is a similar issue which also exists. Both Intelligence and Charisma suffer from the problem that they give very little to any class that isn't based around it, where every other stat has something that you'll really miss if you dump it. Even Strength lets you carry more stuff.

While both could use some sort of boost, consensus is that Intelligence is slightly less valuable than Charisma, for whatever reason. Some potential factors are that Charisma saves are slightly more common than Intelligence saves, Charisma-based classes are much more common than Intelligence-based classes, and Intelligence feels like it's weaker than it used to be since earlier editions let it govern skills and languages known.

Charisma saves are more common
More Charisma based classes (and they are good)
Charisma based skills tend to matter more than the int ones (social pillar).

 

[KahlessNestor]

Yes, that is a similar issue which also exists. Both Intelligence and Charisma suffer from the problem that they give very little to any class that isn't based around it, where every other stat has something that you'll really miss if you dump it. Even Strength lets you carry more stuff.

While both could use some sort of boost, consensus is that Intelligence is slightly less valuable than Charisma, for whatever reason. Some potential factors are that Charisma saves are slightly more common than Intelligence saves, Charisma-based classes are much more common than Intelligence-based classes, and Intelligence feels like it's weaker than it used to be since earlier editions let it govern skills and languages known.

So....you never, like...talk to people in your games? I hardly ever dump Cha. And carrying capacity doesn't even matter in this edition.

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[UngeheuerLich]

Extra language or tools are good.
I let my players roll int checks to become proficient in tools faster than what is written in downtime rules.

 

[Einlanzer0]

While Cha is a bit on the weak side, it fares a bit better than int due to both the general usefulness of the skills and the number of classes whose abilities benefit from it. Additionally, Int is more believable as an attribute that would actually contribute significantly to success across all pillars of gameplay.

I think some change is needed, and no one on this board will convince me otherwise. The only question is what is most appropriate. I've always liked the idea of replacing Hero Points with a similar Int based mechanic. This is to talk about simpler options.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

When I dump Charisma, I really miss having friends and allies.

When I dump Intelligence, I really miss knowing what's going on.

Even rude people have friends, although nice people tend to have more friends.

Understanding what's going on is really more of a Wisdom thing. Intelligence is more about book-smarts.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

So....you never, like...talk to people in your games? I hardly ever dump Cha. And carrying capacity doesn't even matter in this edition.

Carrying capacity matters less than it used to, but it still matters. And talking to people doesn't rely on Charisma unless you're trying to manipulate them.

It's not like a Charisma of 8 turns you into a hideous monster or anything. Everything from 3-20 is in the functional adult range, and a score of 8 is imperceptibly below average unless you have an extended interaction.

 

[Einlanzer0]

I actually came up with a variant mechanics for Inspiration and Hero Points (which I feel need to be polished anyway) that use charisma and intelligence respectively a while back, which I may still playtest. The base mechanic is swapped between them for better thematic consistency (TP grants advantage, Inspiration grants bonus die)

Tactical Points (replaces Hero Points)
Characters have TP equal to 2+ int modifier. Used as a bonus action to gain advantage or remove disadvantage.
Recover at a rate of 1/2 per long rest, like with HD
They can be permanently scarified to gain +2 savant bonus to any skill or tool (whether proficient or not). This simulates the "knowledgeable" version of Intelligence over the "quick thinking" version and gives players the ability to dump their TP if they don't want to mess with them.

Inspiration
Still awarded by DMs, still a binary (cannot be stacked)
When inspiration is used, allies in vicinity make a d20 roll using the user's cha modifier (DC 15). On pass, they become inspired
Can only become inspired a maximum of once per long rest
It can be saved as long as desired
Used to add d6 to any die roll.

Honestly, I'm not too worried about the impacts these have on their respective classes. You could make the argument that Wizards are "gimped" (I know they aren't, really) because their primary stat is so mediocre compared to others. A lot of the wizard's apparent power comes from DM mismanagement (allowing too many long rests, for example). It's something to keep an eye on, but not knee-jerk react to just from re-balancing the attribute itself.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Even rude people have friends, although nice people tend to have more friends.

Even weak people can carry stuff, although strong people tend to carry more stuff.

Understanding what's going on is really more of a Wisdom thing. Intelligence is more about book-smarts.

Yeah. Book smarts. As in: "The Seven Acolouthians hate the sun god Magnar because their father was the old sun god whom Magnar slew. They seek to slay him in turn, but there is only one place where an eternal being may be destroyed: the black monolith known as the Rock of Felstrom, where the Demiurge stood when it first created the world. So their plan must involve getting Magnar back to the Rock in some way. There is an Eighth Acolouthian, Mesonyktikon, their half-brother by the god of darkness, who opposes their designs. His ultimate motives are as obscure as his father's, but he may nevertheless be helpful."

Compare to: "There are seven or eight powerful tieflings running around messing with the sun god's cult for some reason."

And talking to people doesn't rely on Charisma unless you're trying to manipulate them.

This is only true if "Asking people nicely to help you with your quest" constitutes "manipulation".

It's not like a Charisma of 8 turns you into a hideous monster or anything.

This is true. But the same can be said of any ability score: 8 is "slightly below average" for all of them.

Everything from 3-20 is in the functional adult range, and a score of 8 is imperceptibly below average unless you have an extended interaction.

That weirdo in the 7-11 who tried to smell you that one time? That was a "functional adult".