D&D 5E Idea for Int

[Jefe Bergenstein]

The thing is, though, despite what a lot of people seem to think, I feel that Int should actually a play small-moderate direct role in combat, and not just in RP or skill encounters. Years ago I came up with a Tactics mechanic that involved rerolls and utilized Int, but it's a bit heavy for people who don't really like straying from the core rules.

As does wisdom, as does con,etc. 5E D&D is abstract, and the bonuses should be small. The minutia edition is 3rd with a billion tiny modifiers all adding up.

 

[Einlanzer0]

As does wisdom, as does con,etc. 5E D&D is abstract, and the bonuses should be small. The minutia edition is 3rd with a billion tiny modifiers all adding up.

Yeah, and I don't think there's any need to replicate this. It's relatively easy to boost attributes without adding really fiddly mechanics. I use Sanity/Madness in a lot of my games, which helps boost Wisdom and Charisma already. Charisma also impacts Inspiration.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

I'm not sure why you would have any. For a College of Lore bard, Str is more or less a "dump" stat and therefore comparable to Intelligence.

You just said, "Strength is not what I would consider a dump stat."

1. There are way, way more builds for which Str is not a dump stat, including many builds that it's supplemental for rather than primary.

I'd argue that "number of builds" is a false metric, and not just for this particular subject either. Any given character has exactly one build. It doesn't matter how many other people need Strength when the salient fact is that you don't. And having some characters value some ability scores more highly than others isn't exactly a sign of imbalance, in any case.

2. Even as tertiary stat not used at all in your build, Str is at least as good as Int, if not still slightly better. This is particularly true if you already have a high Int character in the party and/or if you're using alternate encumbrance rules (which I do).

You just said that Str and Int are comparable in a lore bard. I'd go further and contend that they're not comparable at all: I would have been very foolish to play this character with 16 Str and 8 Int, because I get far more benefit from making frequent knowledge checks than I do from rolling almost nonexistent melee attacks. (I should add that we both have a wizard and use the alternate encumbrance rules.)

3. Str's contribution is hard, rather than soft, meaning, it isn't subject to metagaming around and is and is not reliant on DM's operating in a certain way.

If players are metagaming around their characters' low Int scores, that's a table problem that goes beyond the balance of the ability score rules. And setting metagaming aside, low Str is far easier to play around -- see again the aforementioned bag of holding/mule. As far as DM operation goes, being strict about the encumbrance rules is "operating a certain way" -- lots of DMs don't, and the rules themselves are written to make them easy to handwave. What's more, you just highlighted the alternate encumbrance rules, which is definitely "operating a certain way".

 

[KahlessNestor]

I'm pretty sure armor is calculated into encumbrance. It just also has minimum strength requirements in the basic rules.

If that is the case, then why would you ignore the Strength requirement on armor when using the variant rules? Seems to me the Strength requirement is designed to handle your armor (properly worn armor isn't as effectively "heavy" as when not worn), and the normal encumbrance rules to handle the rest of your gear, and loot, etc.

Even if you do add armor to normal rules, at 15 Strength (minimum needed for plate), that still leaves you with 160 lbs of carrying capacity, still more than enough to carry most of the items on the equipment list, plus your weapons. And by the time you get access to plate, you likely have greater than 15 Strength anyway.

Still sounds like a handwave to me.

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[The Crimson Binome]

If that is the case, then why would you ignore the Strength requirement on armor when using the variant rules? Seems to me the Strength requirement is designed to handle your armor (properly worn armor isn't as effectively "heavy" as when not worn), and the normal encumbrance rules to handle the rest of your gear, and loot, etc.

It's two different ways of saying that you need to be strong in order to wear heavy armor without it slowing you down, so you shouldn't get things like a low-Strength cleric moving full speed while wearing full plate.

If you're using the basic rules, then heavy armor slows you down unless you have high enough Strength. If you're using the optional rules, then heavy armor probably slows you down, unless you have high enough Strength that you can deal with the encumbrance caused by the weight of it. In both cases, the actual weight of the armor still counts against your maximum limit; the only difference is how you go about drawing the line on whether or not it slows you down.

 

[Einlanzer0]

You just said, "Strength is not what I would consider a dump stat."

I'd argue that "number of builds" is a false metric, and not just for this particular subject either. Any given character has exactly one build. It doesn't matter how many other people need Strength when the salient fact is that you don't. And having some characters value some ability scores more highly than others isn't exactly a sign of imbalance, in any case.

You just said that Str and Int are comparable in a lore bard. I'd go further and contend that they're not comparable at all: I would have been very foolish to play this character with 16 Str and 8 Int, because I get far more benefit from making frequent knowledge checks than I do from rolling almost nonexistent melee attacks. (I should add that we both have a wizard and use the alternate encumbrance rules.)

If players are metagaming around their characters' low Int scores, that's a table problem that goes beyond the balance of the ability score rules. And setting metagaming aside, low Str is far easier to play around -- see again the aforementioned bag of holding/mule. As far as DM operation goes, being strict about the encumbrance rules is "operating a certain way" -- lots of DMs don't, and the rules themselves are written to make them easy to handwave. What's more, you just highlighted the alternate encumbrance rules, which is definitely "operating a certain way".

I'll be honest - I don't really see why you feel the need to try to argue me out of my (commonly held) perspective that Int is weaker than it should be in 5e. You aren't going to succeed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/3gxyk3/int_dump_stat_hope_you_enjoy_being_stupid/

 

[guachi]

I'd like to make Intelligence more useful but it suffers from being:

Primary stat for one class
A secondary save stat

I support the idea of giving an extra tool/language/skill for each plus for intelligence.

I'm a linguist by trade in the Navy and I'd rate linguists higher on "raw knowledge" over the other rates in the Navy. I am probably biased but I find an extra language appropriate. If I remember my rules analysis, one skill = two languages = two tools. So, in my game, I'd let you have an extra language/tool for each plus and a skill for two plusses.

Though as long as the player and DM didn't mind the bookkeeping, I'd allow half proficiency in a skill for one plus. The game already has half proficiency bonus for other things so it's not like I'm adding a new mechanic.

Oh, and I swapped medicine and religion for what attribute is used. The religion skill, to me, is more than just knowing the rites and rituals of a faith. It's about knowing how to apply the doctrines of that faith and reach the right spiritual interpretation of scripture.

 

[marcelvdpol]

I would do it like this. Since intelligence represents memory and logic, it should be keyed to the amount of proficiencies a character receives.
1) modify the amount of skill proficiencies a character gets by the intelligence modifier. When applying a asi to intelligence which results in the modifier increasing, you are allowed to pick a skill proficiency from your class list. If you already have all skills listed, you are free to pick any skill.
2) modify the amount of languages you know by the intelligence modifier as above. Note that the minimum amount of languages you lnow is 2; common and your racial language.
3) modify the amount of tool proficiencies by your intelligence modifier.
4) if your modifier is positive, you may select a number of individual weapon proficiencies equal to yulour intelligence modifier.

You can mix and match these as you see fit.