Improved TWF, Quickdraw and Thrown Weapons?

[Oscar carramiñana]

This guy's usual full attack is +10/+5. Using the dagger also makes this +8/+8/+3 with Two-Weapon Fighting. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting adds another off-hand attack at -5 (this penalty replaces the usual one for two-weapon fighting, and is subtracted from the total BAB), so now it becomes +8/+8/+5/+3.

The BAB total becomes +8/+8/+3/+3 with rapid shot +6/+6/+6/+1/+1

 

[James McMurray]

The TWF, Quick Draw, Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot combo is the one laid out in the excellent Warrior's Strategy Guide. Adding Improved TWF does sweeten the deal, but the extra penalty lessens the benefit somewhat.

If you can expect to hit with your second iterative attack in your primary hand, you can expect to hit with your second offhand attack. Since IMX most 2nd attacks hit, ITWF is worthhile IMO.

This guy's usual full attack is +10/+5. Using the dagger also makes this +8/+8/+3 with Two-Weapon Fighting. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting adds another off-hand attack at -5 (this penalty replaces the usualone for two-weapon fighting, and is subtracted from the total BAB), so now it becomes +8/+8/+5/+3.

Nowhere does it state that ITWF replace the -2. Those penalties apply whenever fighting with two weapons, and stack. Thus it should be +8/+8/+3/+3.

Adding in Rapid Shot, you get another attack at your highest BAB, and every attack takes an additional -2 penalty. So now you're working at +6/+6/+3/+1 with an extra ranged attack at +6 (-2 for the Rapid Shot penalty, -2 for making an off-hand attack; ostensibly this extra attack is made after the others).

It would be +6/+6/+6/+1/+1.

Also, since he needs a minimum of Dex 16 to get Rapid Shot, he has at least a +3 bonus to his ranged attacks.

Dex 13+ for Rapid Shot, not 16+. But we can probably assume at least a 16 dex for someone who wants to focus on thrown weponry.

 

[fafhrd]

Dex 13+ for Rapid Shot, not 16+. But we can probably assume at least a 16 dex for someone who wants to focus on thrown weponry.

And unless the character is a ranger, you'll need a 17 dex for the ITWF.

 

[James McMurray]

Doh! Missed that one. So yeah, we're looking at at least 17 dex, probably 18+.

 

[Alzrius]

Well, I made a few errors, but most of what I said can be salvaged. ^^;

That said, I'm pretty sure I'm right about the extra ranged attack from Rapid Shot not needing to be made in the middle of a full attack sequence as detemined by its iterative bonus. You could, with a short sword and dagger, make a full two-weapon attack sequence, then take a 5-ft. step back and hurl the dagger at the guy with your Rapid Shot attack.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That said, I'm pretty sure I'm right about the extra ranged attack from Rapid Shot not needing to be made in the middle of a full attack sequence as detemined by its iterative bonus.

As written, the only attacks that have to be made in a certain order are "multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough".

That's the +6 and the +1 with your primary hand.

The first off-hand attack is an extra attack because you are wielding a second weapon in your off-hand (not 'because your base attack bonus is high enough').

The second off-hand attack is an extra attack because you have the ITWF feat (not 'because your base attack bonus is high enough').

The Rapid Shot attack is an extra attack because you have the Rapid Shot feat (not 'because your base attack bonus is high enough').

-Hyp.

 

[Darklone]

Blargh. Simply roll all dice together and let the dice fall as they may, be sure to bribe your DM and don't sleep with his gal.

Lat's assume that PC with ITWF and Rapid Shot is hasted and has Sidestep (MiniHB) and Expert Tactician....

 

[Stormrunner]

It may be technically legal, but IMC I would disallow it. It seems pretty clear to me that Rapid Shot is intended to be the missile-weapon equivalent to TWF, just as Flurry of Blows is the unarmed-attack equivalent. As such, they shouldn't stack.
Would you allow a monk to do a full Flurry sequence with his fists, then Quickdraw a weapon and say "Now I get my extra attack(s) for TWF"? If not, then you probably shouldn't allow the TWF/Rapid Shot combo either.

 

[James McMurray]

Thrown weapons are so weak compared to other ranged weapons that giving them this ability only manags to bring them up close to the power level of the Mighty Composite Longbow.

 

[Khristos]

Actually when mixed with throwing weapon master and invisible blade this becomes real fun and actually viable as a character... get some daggers with returning capability and you are in business.