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IndyPendant's Sunless Citadel OOC thread.

Woohoo! I can post now! (Frickin board frickin late morning frickin inaccessibilities...: )

Jair, trip attempts are useless against fliers. That's why he hasn't used it. I...don't think...I've forgotten to use it in the past.

But you're absolutely right about the eagle. My bad, sorry. It doesn't affect the to-hit of course, because the eagle was using Dex and Weapon Finesse. But it did do two more points damage.

--This, btw, is a perfect example of why I always include modifiers to the dice rolls on your side. So that if I miss any, you can point them out to me. : )

I will edit the appropriate post in the five hours or so it will probably take me to get there, edit, and successfully submit it.
 

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Actually, Trip is -not- useless against a flier unless the flier is flying.

Bear in mind that dragons cannot, without a feat, hover. So unless Herr Dragon is moving around, it's not flying. Like that 5' step then breathe? It might have flapped that 5'...and then landed again.

I forget the minimum velocity it has to maintain to keep in the air...I'll look it up later. Just something to remember though. Dragons aren't as a rule built to fly in small rooms like this...even if they themselves are small. :)
 

I'm trying to find the rules on tripping fliers but not having any luck.

Here is the stuff on flying tactically, tripping, and general flight. Anybody know where the rules on tripping fliers is explicitly dealt with? I can picture a wolf grabbing a flier by the throat and throwing it to the ground to be prone, but that's not how Indy and Shayuri seem to be seeing it.

Tactical Aerial Movement
Once movement becomes three-dimensional and involves turning in midair and maintaining a minimum velocity to stay aloft, it gets more complicated. Most flying creatures have to slow down at least a little to make a turn, and many are limited to fairly wide turns and must maintain a minimum forward speed. Each flying creature has a maneuverability, as shown on Table: Maneuverability. The entries on the table are defined below.
Minimum Forward Speed: If a flying creature fails to maintain its minimum forward speed, it must land at the end of its movement. If it is too high above the ground to land, it falls straight down, descending 150 feet in the first round of falling. If this distance brings it to the ground, it takes falling damage. If the fall doesn’t bring the creature to the ground, it must spend its next turn recovering from the stall. It must succeed on a DC 20 Reflex save to recover. Otherwise it falls another 300 feet. If it hits the ground, it takes falling damage. Otherwise, it has another chance to recover on its next turn.
Hover: The ability to stay in one place while airborne.
Move Backward: The ability to move backward without turning around.
Reverse: A creature with good maneuverability uses up 5 feet of its speed to start flying backward.
Turn: How much the creature can turn after covering the stated distance.
Turn in Place: A creature with good or average maneuverability can use some of its speed to turn in place.
Maximum Turn: How much the creature can turn in any one space.
Up Angle: The angle at which the creature can climb.
Up Speed: How fast the creature can climb.
Down Angle: The angle at which the creature can descend.
Down Speed: A flying creature can fly down at twice its normal flying speed.
Between Down and Up: An average, poor, or clumsy flier must fly level for a minimum distance after descending and before climbing. Any flier can begin descending after a climb without an intervening distance of level flight.

Table: Maneuverability
Maneuverability
Perfect Good Average Poor Clumsy
Minimum forward speed None None Half Half Half
Hover Yes Yes No No No
Move backward Yes Yes No No No
Reverse Free –5 ft. No No No
Turn Any 90º/5 ft. 45º/5 ft. 45º/5 ft. 45º/10 ft.
Turn in place Any +90º/–5 ft. +45º/–5 ft. No No
Maximum turn Any Any 90º 45º 45º
Up angle Any Any 60º 45º 45º
Up speed Full Half Half Half Half
Down angle Any Any Any 45º 45º
Down speed Double Double Double Double Double
Between down and up 0 0 5 ft. 10 ft. 20 ft.


TRIP
You can try to trip an opponent as an unarmed melee attack. You can only trip an opponent who is one size category larger than you, the same size, or smaller.
Making a Trip Attack: Make an unarmed melee touch attack against your target. This provokes an attack of opportunity from your target as normal for unarmed attacks.
If your attack succeeds, make a Strength check opposed by the defender’s Dexterity or Strength check (whichever ability score has the higher modifier). A combatant gets a +4 bonus for every size category he is larger than Medium or a –4 penalty for every size category he is smaller than Medium. The defender gets a +4 bonus on his check if he has more than two legs or is otherwise more stable than a normal humanoid. If you win, you trip the defender. If you lose, the defender may immediately react and make a Strength check opposed by your Dexterity or Strength check to try to trip you.
Avoiding Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Improved Trip feat, or if you are tripping with a weapon (see below), you don’t provoke an attack of opportunity for making a trip attack.
Being Tripped (Prone): A tripped character is prone. Standing up is a move action.
Tripping a Mounted Opponent: You may make a trip attack against a mounted opponent. The defender may make a Ride check in place of his Dexterity or Strength check. If you succeed, you pull the rider from his mount.
Tripping with a Weapon: Some weapons can be used to make trip attacks. In this case, you make a melee touch attack with the weapon instead of an unarmed melee touch attack, and you don’t provoke an attack of opportunity.
If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the weapon to avoid being tripped.

Flight (Ex or Su): A creature with this ability can cease or resume flight as a free action. If the ability is supernatural, it becomes ineffective in an antimagic field, and the creature loses its ability to fly for as long as the antimagic effect persists.
 


Good cop/Bad cop with 2 1stlevel adventurers and a dragon.... Hmmm... and the good cop is staggered.

(I think I know how this ends... lol )
 

Okay. Damage control. : )

Shayuri and Voadam have helped me realize that I have in fact made a mistake with the dragon, although not the one I thought I had. In my mind, you see, the dragon has been flying the entire battle. I thought there was nothing wrong with this, but in carefully reviewing the flight rules, this is wrong. At average maneuverability, the dragon can't move the way it has been and continue flying. It has to land at the end of each of its turns.

So what does this mean? It actually wouldn't have changed anything at all, really--except when factoring in Terrek's trip ability. Trip doesn't work on a flying creature, but it does work on a standing creature! And getting up from a trip, even for a tiny creature, means an AoO from all threatening opponents.

There are two potential times Calcryx could have been tripped by Terrek. The first time was just before it stepped back and breathed on Kuma and Ydyr, and the second time was before it retreated to the ceiling. Normally, I hate doing takebacks, and just say 'oops sorry', move on, and make a mental note not to repeat the mistake; I do this because it's usually too much effort to try to rewrite history. That worked in your favour when Heirmund cast a colour spray he had never prepared, for example. I never backtracked because it would have been *way* too much effort, even though you would have been in a *much* worse situation without that spell being cast.

However. You're facing a TPK. And while I have no qualms whatsoever killing a party when going by the rules, I couldn't in all fairness let you be killed off because I misplayed rules that could have changed the combat so drastically. It's like...cheating.

So I'm doing a takeback. The good news (well, good from *my* viewpoint anyways! : ) is that Terrek actually managed to fail at the first trip. ((Terrek: 6+3=9. Calcryx: 17-4=13.)) So I've decided I'm not going to revise that post, since that would only involve a minor descript change. Which means that the only post that needs revising is the most recent one I made. I've rolled the second trip check to see what happens, and Terrek succeeded. I have not gone any further yet, however--I like to be surprised as much as the next guy.

My next step will be, very soon, to edit the most recent post I've made to reflect the change--and then to post what the dragon does in response to Ydyr and Lehko...

And sorry about losing track of this combat so badly. I've already taken steps to see that this is not repeated. (One of them being that spreadsheet I mentioned.)

And have fun!
 

Okay, all done.

And this weekend's a long weekend for us Canuckleheads. So I'm going away tomorrow afternoon with the family to a cabin, and won't be back until Monday. Which means if you guys don't respond in time (and I don't find the time to get another post in) the next time I post will be Monday evening or (more likely) Tuesday morning.

See you then!
 

Well, I'm off! Thought I'd leave you with a morsel though before I left:

You're all roughly 3/4 of the way to 2nd level. : )

See you Monday or Tuesday, and have fun!
 

I'm cool with the no take backs rule whether there are significant mistakes or not, I'm happy with either negotiating with the dragon from the pit or having Terrek knock the dragon down and picking up from there.

If we are going back to Terrek's second attack tripping then who is still up? The same as now? I think I'm still down in the pit and my readied action would not be different, only the conversation with Ydir and Lekho would be retracted.
 


Into the Woods

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