D&D 4E Is Multi-Attacking Really Control? A different Fireball

[AbdulAlhazred]

Might be a bit stronger in some ways than the old one...

 

[Garthanos]

Might be a bit stronger in some ways than the old one...

But definitely more of a controller power and fireball is for me worthy to be iconic and have some of the flavors invoked in the original.

 

[FrogReaver]

One of the things I wanted to see in a 5e was a refinement of the Wizards tactical role as a controller...
It really really looks like that isn't happening.

Unless you are in wide open terrain the wall spells seem like they would work well for control. They can block enemies in. Cut off line of sight - all while providing some damage if you extend the wall through creatures spaces

 

[Minigiant]

Like I said in another topic, D&D really has more than 4 roles and 4e put multiple combat styles together

It is really

• Controllers
  • Blasters- AOE Damage
  • Debuffers- Debuffs + Root/KD/Slow"
• Defenders
  • Shielders- Marks + Defense
  • Bashers- Marks + Offense
• Leaders
  • Commanders - Buff and Attack granting
  • Healers- Healing Focus
• Strikers
  • Hammers- Melee DPR + Toughness
  • Skirmishers- Melee DPR + Shift powers
  • Snipers- Ranged DPR + "Root/KD/Slow"

 

[Garthanos]

Like I said in another topic, D&D really has more than 4 roles and 4e put multiple combat styles together

It is really

• Controllers
  • Blasters- AOE Damage
  • Debuffers- Debuffs + Root/KD/Slow"
• Defenders
  • Shielders- Marks + Defense
  • Bashers- Marks + Offense
• Leaders
  • Commanders - Buff and Attack granting
  • Healers- Healing Focus
• Strikers
  • Hammers- Melee DPR + Toughness
  • Skirmishers- Melee DPR + Shift powers
  • Snipers- Ranged DPR + "Root/KD/Slow"

Oh certainly the roles are simplified and largely one can differentiate many of them via what feats or power subsets you choose associated with the class.

Note how the fireball I made has 2 potential effects? one ups damage indirectly and the other increases debuff.

 

[Eubani]

Damage only AOE in 4e is only control when it has enough damage to make enemies want keep a part. Very few AOE provided that level of threat.

 

[Garthanos]

Damage only AOE in 4e is only control when it has enough damage to make enemies want keep a part.

Not sure if I consider that fully true... minions are a thing and swarms are too.
How about a lightning spell which grounded each of the enemies to each other that if they got within 15 feet of each other an arc of electrical damage would leap between them.

 

[Garthanos]

I am actually considering ways to make classic spells work for me. Less happy with lightning than the fireball I have ended up with

 

[Eubani]

Fireball is simple in that you can force the purpose of an AOE by forced movement. LIghtening bolt stunned or Dazed are the obvious riders, maybe some sort of magnetized effect if wearing metal armour and any held metal items you and any such items are pulled or repelled from other sources of metal? Maybe penalties to hit and penalties to defence due to magnetization.

 

[Garthanos]

Fireball is simple in that you can force the purpose of an AOE by forced movement.

Yeh the push on save and lingering flame and sulfurous gases works pretty well above. Pasted out of my character builder.

LIghtening bolt stunned or Dazed are the obvious riders, maybe some sort of magnetized effect if wearing metal armour and any held metal items you and any such items are pulled or repelled from other sources of metal?

Magnetized I hadnt thought of... The lightning we have is an encounter so I decided stunned was too much unless I shift that